Dayboat Videography Work Advice Needed

[Diver1977]

Hello all

This is my first posting on this forum. I am a Padi Instructor considering the idea of returning to the dive industry. I quit diving a few years ago after i realised i would never likely be able to afford to join the housing ladder whilst earning a typical instructors sallary. I speak the language of several nations fluently yet they are all english speaking nations and so my prospects are limited when i face the fact that i just dont have the right type of brain sells to excel in languages. Im now concidering other dive career options which do not include the need to learn language skills. When working as a divemaster in egypt i once came across a guy working freelance as a dayboat videographer filming first time divers and selling them an edited video before reaching port. To get to the point im concidering buying my own video gear and training myself up in the job with a course or two but only IF it is a financialy viable idea. I was hoping somebody in this forum might have some experience of this type of work and will be able to give me some estimate of how much i can expect to earn working freelance with my own equipment on dayboats?. I realise only comercial diving can (sometimes) pay a good salary. I have done some surface supply commercial work in the past but im not interested in this kind of diving anymore due to the higher risk factors involved and the insane working hours. Im not looking to get rich in recreational diving but i do have the usual life expenses and so i need to be given a minimal wage assurance estimate on potential earnings in dayboat videography (in the mediteranian/egypt) before i commit myself to jump back into this idea as a new job.

Any knowledge anyone can offer on this field would be greatly apreciated. Especially any rough estimates of potential earnings (after expenses) and also any estimates on equipment cost would be usefull too.


Regards

Peter, uk

 

[PerroneFord]

You might pop over to wetpixel.com as there are several folks doing this very thing for a living. I'm sure they could advise you accordingly. I have a feeling with the current economic downturn in the US and other places, destination diving is going to feel the pinch soon.

 

[Annie Crawley]

I worked on live aboard boats for years as a photo and video pro. It depends on how important diving and creating images are to you. Most people who are the video pros also have other responsibilities. Dive Instructing, filling tanks, maintenance, entertaining others. Lots of behind the scenes. If you want to do it of tourists and that sort of thing, you need to look at it as a small business start up. You have to think of your location, cost of set up, not only your video camera but your editing too....there are a lot of costs.

If you are doing this for "water sports" and not limiting yourself to diving, I think you would have a better shot at it. But if you don't know the first thing about underwater imaging, I suggest you rent a camera and see if you like editing. No one realizes how much time the pre and post production takes

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can do anything else for you.

 

[Diver1977]

I worked on live aboard boats for years as a photo and video pro. It depends on how important diving and creating images are to you. Most people who are the video pros also have other responsibilities. Dive Instructing, filling tanks, maintenance, entertaining others. Lots of behind the scenes. If you want to do it of tourists and that sort of thing, you need to look at it as a small business start up. You have to think of your location, cost of set up, not only your video camera but your editing too....there are a lot of costs.

If you are doing this for "water sports" and not limiting yourself to diving, I think you would have a better shot at it. But if you don't know the first thing about underwater imaging, I suggest you rent a camera and see if you like editing. No one realizes how much time the pre and post production takes

Hope this helps. Let me know if I can do anything else for you.

Thanks for the info Annie, my situation is that i am not keen to teach or guide whilst working as a videographer unless i really have too. The reason being that my past experience of most dive centres is that they can overwork you to the point of danger. I would far prefer to be concentrating on one thing at a time only and as you say there is a lot of pre and post production work out of the water to be done. I have some land based videography practice with my dads videography business filming company events etc so i know i have a natural interest in the subject. Im prepared to save the money and pay whatever it costs to set myself up with suitable equipment. The real question is (to be more precise)....can i expect to earn an average $350.00 per week (after equipment, blank tapes, replacement gear etc). Im pretty good at walking up the beach and selling dive courses for commision and im happy to film any water sport to fill gaps in videography dayboat work. The question boils down to the magic number $350.00 salary per week (based on working 6 days). I hope you can give me your best guestimate of how much salary i can count on if im working in the mediterainian or egypt or even the states as you seem to be the perfect person to ask. Or perhaps you can remind me of the price of 1 sale video/dvd to a customer so i can do my own guestimating? PS. im not keen on liveaboard work as i need to be with family in the evenings so any estimate would need to be assuming im not involving myself in any other dive duties beyond videography tasks and socialising with the divers onboard.

Hope to hear from you again

Thanks Annie

Kind Regards

Peter

 

[Diver1977]

Thanks Perroneford. I tried the link you suggested but there seems to be a webpage technical problem stopping me from contacting them through their forum.

Thanks again

Peter

 

[alcina]

In addition to heading over to Wetpixel.com :: Underwater Photography and Videography I would suggest you start talking to dive operators in your chosen area. Find out what their needs and wants are. Begin to prepare a niche.

I get 5-10 "applications" from people expressing things just like your posts every few weeks. The one thing that virtually all of them fail to address is how can they benefit me, as an employer. And "improving client satisfaction" isn't enough...my regular crew do that quite nicely and either have adequate video skills to offer a basic package or can easily be trained to do so. You need to figure out what you bring to the table for an employer - it should be a win win for you both.

"Videographers" are a dime a dozen, I'm afraid...kind of like DMs and even instructors. You need to set yourself apart and become valuable - an asset that an operator wants and wants to keep. There are just so many willing to work for peanuts and so many who really have no interest in adding much of value to the operation they work for - they just want to do what they want to do and be paid for it. Which is fabulous if you can find an operator or a group of operations who need that gap filled.

But the more you can offer, the better your chances in a competitive area. And the better you can express that to a potential employer, the better your chances. You've got to grab us straight up or we'll head to someone who can multi-task and fill a variety of roles every time - it just makes more sense.

I would also recommend that you have some sample videos ready to present to your possible employers as many will want to see what you can do.

 

[Mr.X]

Peter - In my experience with dive instruction, videography and making a adequate living - it's difficult at best. Alcina, Annie and Perrone's advice is quite sage. If you are working on a liveaboard you will be asked to do other things. The profitability aspect of that niche of the dive business requires crew versatility. So, in between video you will tasked with other duties, probably not appreciated for your efforts and not well compensated IMO. Also, (as mentioned) videographers are a dime a dozen. All that anyone needs to do these days is get a setup and start shooting. Editing is easy with the advent of computer-based NLE's. It is literally push-button easy.

Some areas of videography that I've managed to make slight profit (at the end of the day) were deeper, more technical/institutional projects. The customers are business-oriented. However, projects like that don't come around often. Also, commercial/institutional video projects may pay you standard industry rates + tape, equip. fees etc. Recently, I did a commercial shoot over several days which paid me for just living expenses. If all goes well it will broadcast internationally which sets up sponsors with deeper pockets for the next series. That being said, the shoot itself was very, very difficult and something that most videographers would be hesitant to shoot. On a side note - there are a handful of very-capable videographers/production groups who dominate this very microscope niche of the film world. All have invested $$$ to make it happen.

In all, when I undertook dive instruction decades ago I looked carefully at dive pro. lifestyles and decided that I had better create a sustainable backup plan which could support my first interest. I am glad that I did because I see my colleagues from decades ago are still struggling with money and hoping that the industry will give them what they originally wanted. Sadly, I have to use the words "burnout" & "disappointed" in these cases. Several of them are from the UK. Nicest guys in the world, but not quite living they way they had envisioned.

Cheers,

X

 

[Diver1977]

Peter - In my experience with dive instruction, videography and making a adequate living - it's difficult at best. Alcina, Annie and Perrone's advice is quite sage. If you are working on a liveaboard you will be asked to do other things. The profitability aspect of that niche of the dive business requires crew versatility. So, in between video you will tasked with other duties, probably not appreciated for your efforts and not well compensated IMO. Also, (as mentioned) videographers are a dime a dozen. All that anyone needs to do these days is get a setup and start shooting. Editing is easy with the advent of computer-based NLE's. It is literally push-button easy.

Some areas of videography that I've managed to make slight profit (at the end of the day) were deeper, more technical/institutional projects. The customers are business-oriented. However, projects like that don't come around often. Also, commercial/institutional video projects may pay you standard industry rates + tape, equip. fees etc. Recently, I did a commercial shoot over several days which paid me for just living expenses. If all goes well it will broadcast internationally which sets up sponsors with deeper pockets for the next series. That being said, the shoot itself was very, very difficult and something that most videographers would be hesitant to shoot. On a side note - there are a handful of very-capable videographers/production groups who dominate this very microscope niche of the film world. All have invested $$$ to make it happen.

In all, when I undertook dive instruction decades ago I looked carefully at dive pro. lifestyles and decided that I had better create a sustainable backup plan which could support my first interest. I am glad that I did because I see my colleagues from decades ago are still struggling with money and hoping that the industry will give them what they originally wanted. Sadly, I have to use the words "burnout" & "disappointed" in these cases. Several of them are from the UK. Nicest guys in the world, but not quite living they way they had envisioned.

Cheers,

X

Your reply makes a good point about adding value to a dive center. Its no secret the dive world is full of "work for training" deals. Perhaps there is no obvious silver bullet to earning a reasonable wage in the recreational field. however i dont give in that easy and believe in the religion of "creative thought" to solve any problem. Ive also always been a big believer in going about things with a win win mentality yet on this issue i am struggling to think of anything i can offer that would be percieved as "value" by a dive center. as i said in my original post my brain just does not do "languages" which we all know is always the first question at an interview. Perhaps as an employer you can think of something that you feel is missing in terms of "value" in most dive centers. Oh...and please dont say "personality of the DM". In my experience you can have all the charisma in the world but that spotty faced teenager offering work for training every other week soon puts the experienced staff in the dole office or at best on minimal existance sallary....lol. What im really wanting to know is a hard and fast estimated figure of earning per week. From your post it sounds like it would be no different from a DM sallary of 300$/mth???....Frankly i need an assurance that with some elbow greese and a good service i can earn at least 1500$/mth. My ambition is to build a sailing catamaran dive boat (where the realistic money is) and to do this i need to save 100£ per week after living costs over a number of years. At present my options are: a) toilet cleaning or b) finding a way to earn minimum 200£/week in the dive business.
If you have the silver bullet please help me out with your suggestions before i have to apply for that toilet cleaning job....lol

Regards

Peter

 

[PerroneFord]

In 40 years of living, I have found only one absolute guarantee. You WILL cease to breathe at some point. Other than that, we all try to find a way to fill those breathing moments with some combination of work, leisure, and sleep.

There is no silver bullet, there are no guaranteed salaries of $350/wk, and in this economy, there is no guarantee of work at all.

I do wish you all the best but there's a reason this is a competitive market.

 

[Mr.X]

however i dont give in that easy and believe in the religion of "creative thought" to solve any problem. Ive also always been a big believer in going about things with a win win mentality yet on this issue i am struggling to think of anything i can offer that would be percieved as "value" by a dive center. as i said in my original post my brain just does not do "languages" which we all know is always the first question at an interview.

Frankly i need an assurance that with some elbow greese and a good service i can earn at least 1500$/mth. My ambition is to build a sailing catamaran dive boat (where the realistic money is) and to do this i need to save 100£ per week after living costs over a number of years. At present my options are: a) toilet cleaning or b) finding a way to earn minimum 200£/week in the dive business.
If you have the silver bullet please help me out with your suggestions before i have to apply for that toilet cleaning job....lol

Regards

Peter

I wish you the best with your aspiration(s). I mean that genuinely. That being said my mates from the UK (now in their 40's) & Europe lead a somewhat itinerant lifestyle working boats, teaching seasonal jobs, shooting a bit of video here and there & joining a project to develop connections. They are extremely bright, go-getters but a bit limited in their ability (IMO) to adapt and understand that this industry is always about bottom-scraping. Years ago whilst attending a PADI tuneup the industry pro's stated that the dive business takes in a yearly gross profit equivalent to one night of gambling in Las Vegas. Knowing that, there is not a whole lot of pie there for everyone. On a off note I liked the way PADI took in fees for the tuneup and stupid teaching materials.

As Perrone mentioned, the economy is in a downturn. No guarantees for $. Travel & leisure businesses are often hugely affected during downturns. Those that survive will have mechanisms in place, and requisite expertise to survive bumps. Those without multiple skill sets will be expendable. Quite logical as employers look for staff who can guarantee returns, or performance. Not a time to gamble.

On a final note - I have cleaned toilets, dug ditches, drove delivery trucks and did all manner of jobs whilst getting educational degrees. It wasn't easy, but in the end it has paid off as I work in a field which is typically unaffected by downturns. This allows me the ultimate flexibility to call my own shots and not sweat about rent, or my next paycheck. Most importantly, I made connections along the way where I had invested long-term sweat equity.

Cheers and best with your endeavour(s).

X