Dark Narc or Why I don’t dive air to 100ft

[dumpsterDiver]

That is an incredible story. I feel nothing at 100 feet. I've never been that screwed up underwater and I've dove to well over 200 ft on air many times. I will admit having some confusion about navigation at that depths over 150 feet however. I can figure out which way north is with the compass, but sometimes it is a very slow process to figure out which way is west when I am facing north. (Then again, I'm kinda slow on the surface, too).

I guess it is a good reminder that there are some very big differences in different people's tolerances. If I ever suspect that I am having hallucinations, I will be on the inflator pretty quick. I think that I would suspect that my air was contaminated or something. I'm NOT worried about ascending through dirty water.

 

[piikki]

I have personally never been hit like this but I don’t dive deep much. I don’t dive much beyond 100ft because I totally believe I can get narced nutty on nitrox too, and I am not trained on anything tastier than that.

I think if I were feeling the way I did in this example, I would just ascend from where I was up to a shallower depth if there was no deco involved or some other reason to keep me deep.

We obviously (actively) decided not to surface, and it’s actually a good question to ponder whether it was the right decision for us or not. It’s easy to see it was detrimental for our mental state to continue at the depth. The first answer to the question why we did not surface when things deteriorated lies exactly there. Probably every minute that passed, we became more and more narrowed down in our thinking. We were focused on the goal of heading to the beach – so that is what we stubbornly continued to do. (Btw, the time from when I turned the dive to when we hit the slope again is mere 6 minutes but naturally it all felt like ages).

The other two reasons that I know I went through and that made me anxious were more rational. I did not want to surface because I knew it was a nice sunny day, and I had seen at least one fisherman nearby. Good weather gets other boats out too and they often cruise exactly on this stretch of beach. I knew we were now away from our flag and those guys are pretty clueless of divers.

Lastly, I think my judgment about coming up at the state we were in was pretty much spot-on. I was fretting in how bad shape we were for no-reference ascent from 100ft. It embarrasses me that I did not even think of SMB at that point. I wonder if I would have if we made the decision to ascend. I am sure if I had thought of SMB, it alone would have immediately given me some relief , especially relating to reference. We shoot bags so often, I am 100% sure that the joy over having it would have trumped another catastrophic fear that I somehow fudge shooting it.

Honestly I am not sure whether it was better to continue for few minutes and risk the narcosis getting worse or start fudging with the ascent being so nervous about it. I know for sure I wanted to delay the decision as long as I felt I could somewhat safely look for the slope.

I know I was getting close to having to make some decision because the doom and gloom was getting so hard to control. I am pretty confident with myself that I recognize signs of losing control, and can keep tabs on it but when your sensory system starts to fail, you start getting doubts whether you should trust yourself much longer and risk it. I was using gas checks as a measuring stick but I was wondering if it really was enough. (I certainly was not reliable in judging my consumption. I felt like I was labouring but one positive thing I took from this experience was that my consumption actually did not elevate much. Even though we were totally stressed, upon checking SAC rates after the dive mine was 0.66 which is only a little higher than my usual cold water working SAC. (And dammit, I was working the pudding!) I am even happier to know that my buddy put down 0.55. It gives me some confidence that we were both able to talk ourselves down even though we felt highly stressed and were very obsessed with breathing and vanishing gas.)

 

[dumpsterDiver]

You are seriously that hesitant about making an ascent in a dead calm lake without a visual reference? I remember when I learned to dive, I used to hate to make free descents with no reference in poor visibility, but I never recall needing the "crutch" of following a sloping bottom toward the shallows to make an ascent???? Recreational divers are supposed to be able to make a direct ascent to the surface if the need arises. I think the dive you described fits the "need to ascend" criterion.

 

[tiggrr]

I've heard many arguments that the dark narc doesn't exist. So, thank you for this thread. Great read.

The first time I experienced it was a couple of months after certification. Shot down to 90ft, couldn't read my gauges, couldn't get inflator to work, was overwieghted, panic rose til I thought I was gonna die. The biggest scare of my life. I was blessed with having VERY experienced dive buddies. Immediately began an ascent and symptoms went away at 60ft. Learned never to push limits.

Just recently had my 2nd experience a little over a month ago. Was diving the first time with 120's. No problems the first day but, the 2nd was a different story. Narcosis wasn't the biggest problem as I had a bad feeling before I even got in the water. At 70ft, I couldn't shake it off and called the dive. Then, just last weekend had a buddy who was new to cold water get overwhelmed a bit at 90 ft. Overwieghted and working too hard. Same thing. Came up a bit and it went away.

All I can say for myself is that over time and taking things slow to do the deeper dives, I haven't had any real problems. Now I do semi-regular dives over 100ft in 42 degree water. In a wetsuit.

And I agree with Dumpsterdiver. I understand you not wanting to ascend where fishermen and boaters are but, why not at least to 60ft to assess the next step to your plan? You would be thinking a whole lot clearer than that c r a p feeling at 100ft. The #1 way to decrease the effects of narcosis is to ascend.

 

[TSandM]

DD, you've already said you don't think you get narced. The LAST thing in the entire UNIVERSE that I want to do when I'm severely impaired is ascend to where I lose all visual reference. I'm stupid, I'm hallucinating (or delusional, whatever you want to call it) and I'm going to take that mental status into midwater with no visual reference? No. I'm safer being impaired and oriented than taking a chance that ten feet or fifteen feet will be enough to clear my mentation, and that I can negotiate that ten or fifteen feet in my impaired state without losing my marbles.

The solution for people like piikki and me is a) don't be at 100 feet in poor viz, and b) if you are, have helium in the mix.

I'm actually impressed as all get-out that she pulled out of this one. I've been there. It would be VERY easy to get into serious trouble if both divers are impaired.

 

[tiggrr]

DD, you've already said you don't think you get narced. The LAST thing in the entire UNIVERSE that I want to do when I'm severely impaired is ascend to where I lose all visual reference. I'm stupid, I'm hallucinating (or delusional, whatever you want to call it) and I'm going to take that mental status into midwater with no visual reference? No. I'm safer being impaired and oriented than taking a chance that ten feet or fifteen feet will be enough to clear my mentation, and that I can negotiate that ten or fifteen feet in my impaired state without losing my marbles.

The solution for people like piikki and me is a) don't be at 100 feet in poor viz, and b) if you are, have helium in the mix.

I'm actually impressed as all get-out that she pulled out of this one. I've been there. It would be VERY easy to get into serious trouble if both divers are impaired.

Seriously?? You would rather stay at depth experiencing symptoms of delusion/hallucination than ascend?? Full well knowing its just narcosis and the best way to relieve symptoms is to ascend?? What if this had happened on a drift dive or you were blown off of a wreck? And then, suggest the need for helium to do these dives??

"Safer being impaired and oriented ?" Wow. I thought I had heard everything.

Before I was even interested in diving I listened to a old time diver tell me that in diving there are rules and you cannot break them. The rule for narcosis is to ascend.

 

[piikki]

You are seriously that hesitant about making an ascent in a dead calm lake without a visual reference?

I am very serious about my analysis that at the moment I felt extremely incompetent and insecure – even to make the decision.

I knew for sure I did not want to start floating up and down and sideways in my silt box, possibly getting dizzy etc extra trouble that I might not be able to stay on top of when I was already so stretched.

If you are asking me if I am hesitant to make an ascent in a dead calm lake without visual reference in normal state of mind (etc the rest of your post), I think you are just leaping into asking for a pissing match. We are talking about how narcosis affects one’s functioning.

The idea to ascent to reduce narcosis did not even occur to me. I just wanted out because I was anxious to 11, and everything I could think of felt like a disaster. Since you have not experienced narcosis maybe you do not understand the depth of the feeling.

I had checked my wing, I felt the dumps were malfunctioning. I was sure I would cock up the ascent. I have not done too many ascents on drysuit from 100ft. None with no visual reference I admit. At that point I was quite sure that the next piece of gear I touch is going to be shot too. I was very concerned about my buddy – I was unsure how much help she would need with the ascent and whether I would be of much help. I was exaggerating everything. I felt responsible. I told myself I am OK, and I know what to do but constantly something new shook my stability because my brain was firing a lot of BS noise I had to wade through.

I wanted to give us the best chance of getting to the surface safely because I had gotten us into this mess. This time, in this state of mind I decided to search for couple of more minutes. Not to give any guidelines but some of the things that I based my decision upon were gas, calm buddy, the fact that I was still able to see my gauges clearly, and the fact that my heart was not pounding in my ears yet, my hands weren’t shaking, and I was not feeling like I was going to totally mentally check out yet even though I was feeling very scared.

 

[texdiveguy]

Another interesting read....glad it worked out.

I guess I am one of the lucky one's whom seem to deal with any minor narcosis at mid depth dives very well. Each of use are different each and every dive, so we must follow our gut feelings and provided scholastic materials to our own best benefits.

 

[tiggrr]

I am very serious about my analysis that at the moment I felt extremely incompetent and insecure – even to make the decision.

I knew for sure I did not want to start floating up and down and sideways in my silt box, possibly getting dizzy etc extra trouble that I might not be able to stay on top of when I was already so stretched.

If you are asking me if I am hesitant to make an ascent in a dead calm lake without visual reference in normal state of mind (etc the rest of your post), I think you are just leaping into asking for a pissing match. We are talking about how narcosis affects one’s functioning.

The idea to ascent to reduce narcosis did not even occur to me. I just wanted out because I was anxious to 11, and everything I could think of felt like a disaster. Since you have not experienced narcosis maybe you do not understand the depth of the feeling.

I had checked my wing, I felt the dumps were malfunctioning. I was sure I would cock up the ascent. I have not done too many ascents on drysuit from 100ft. None with no visual reference I admit. At that point I was quite sure that the next piece of gear I touch is going to be shot too. I was very concerned about my buddy – I was unsure how much help she would need with the ascent and whether I would be of much help. I was exaggerating everything. I felt responsible. I told myself I am OK, and I know what to do but constantly something new shook my stability because my brain was firing a lot of BS noise I had to wade through.

I wanted to give us the best chance of getting to the surface safely because I had gotten us into this mess. This time, in this state of mind I decided to search for couple of more minutes. Not to give any guidelines but some of the things that I based my decision upon were gas, calm buddy, the fact that I was still able to see my gauges clearly, and the fact that my heart was not pounding in my ears yet, my hands weren’t shaking, and I was not feeling like I was going to totally mentally check out yet even though I was feeling very scared.

Wow. Now I understand a little better too. That is freak'n horrible. Unfortunately, its a hard lesson but, now that you have felt narcosis in this way, if it happens again you are prepared and understand what is happening and what to do.

 

[do it easy]

Sometimes, the dark narc isn't a the bottom, but on the way up! I was diving with ppO2 diver on the Vernon and conditions at 180' were clear and bright. As soon as we hit the 70' stop, the vis just closed up around us as if we were ascending through a cloud. The dive itself was wonderful, but the deco was stressful- all the way up to the surface. The was arms length in some places, the current was running (which is rare for this site), and we had ascended on a different line,which was a little short to say the least. Narcosis and task loading was definitely a factor on that dive. I literally shot 3 SMBs on that dive! And the last bit of it, Duane and I were hanging onto my #18 cave line in current so that we could stay "near" the wreck. Yes, we could have done drift deco, but given the choice, I would rather stay in a fixed location. But is was great dive if you forget about all that deco business!

piikki- Don't beat yourself up too badly. That is the evil nature of narcosis- it impairs your thinking and judgement. Small issues become huge, and the really important issues are forgotten. Look at it this way- you survived and "learned" something but if you were to find yourself narced out of you mind in the same situation, you would probably make the same or even more creative mistakes the next time. You can practice midwater ascents until you can do them with your eyes closed, but if you try it while you are narced, it probably won't look too slick.

The real lesson is how you got into that situation and how to avoid or mitigate that risk.

I was doing a wreck dive around 120' on air and the plan was to descend and poke our heads around a hatch that was very close to the descent line. I went to the LEFT of the line and swam all the way around the wreck looking for the hatch which was about 8' to the RIGHT of the line. If I had been a little more clear headed, I probably would have seen it or thought to LOOK around.