Crunch time for DiveLine

[lexvil]

Underwater you will be limited to sonar and inertial navigation technology. Inertial will be incredibly difficult given the range of motion of a flailing arm.

Do a search for Uwatec Neverlost ( there are actually 2 units currently for sale on ebay).

This sort of device is fine, when they work, for finding your way back to a starting point but if there were 3 of them in a given area (very limited use for sure) and mated to the right type of computer receiver it could be used for actual navigation to specific sites, along the line of radio navigation, don’t know if it would work in the water.

 

[ls1dreams]

I love fancy new features and have a horrible sense of navigation. As a software product manager though, I can tell you that I think you're probably in over your head for what you're trying to build. The end cost is also probably tremendously more than most users will want to pay for something like this.

Here would be a dream recreational computer for me

- Buhlman algorithm
- Bluetooth data connection with open standards
- Nitrox support
- Bright backlit screen
- At least 2 physical buttons
- < $500

As far as messaging, I assume you're thinking a list of pre-set messages that you can scroll through and send? This won't be easy to do underwater.

As far as navigation, I'd give up on any GPS / true location unless you think you're very very close to solving it, because it's probably incredibly complex. A simple alternative might just be a transmitter on a boat, and a simple compass type feature that can point at that beacon to aid navigation back to the boat if lost.

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

I am saying that your market research should have already determined what type of diver would be interested in your device. Your potential client base is only a portion of the pool of available divers. I am pointing out that it is highly likely that none of the tens of thousands of divers I have seen are a potential client. Of that remaining pool what percentage do you think will actually make a purchase?

How many devices do you expect to sell each year? With 2 years development already invested, you need to be selling more than a dozen devices a year.

I guess before the advent of the mobile phone very few people would have ever imagined or wanted such a device. People got on fine for a millennia without mobile phones and today people think it is a necessity.
Yes GPS is out of the question. As you pointed out GK the flailing arm and inertial drift are a problem for inertial systems. Sonar has it's own problems. The method we are working on is not based on these.

 

[ls1dreams]

What's your expected MSRP?

 

[dmaziuk]

- Buhlman algorithm
- Bluetooth data connection with open standards
- Nitrox support
- Bright backlit screen
- At least 2 physical buttons
- < $500

- Buhlmann +GF,
- USB,
- common user-replaceable battery,
- < $200.

(No nitrox would be a surprise at this point, I've a torch I can shine at my arm on night dives, and because I don't dive different mixes I don't have to change O2% all the time -- which is about the only time when one button really matters.)

Or one of the WAI Ratio models, provided it logs its inertial senor readings and GPS coordinates at splash & surfacing points. And desktop software for fitting the calculated trajectory to the logged GPS endpoints.

 

[CT Sean]

Thanks for the replies. What if you could have dive computer, watch, compass, comms and navigation in one device? I get your point CT about bad discipline and separating from you buddy. What if you lost your buddy unintentionally?

All in one would at least pique my interest - not to suggest i'd buy it, but it would at least be something to consider if both my wife and I needed mew PCs. If I accidentally lost my buddy, I'd look around for a moment, then I'd surface. I'd never spend $2000+ to avoid a once in a while scenario.

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

CT do you think spending 2k+ is worth it to have a better outcome of a once in a while accident as life is once only as well?

 

[dmaziuk]

I would be very careful with "better outcome" claims unless you really understand what you're talking about. Free hint: think of the outcome of a diver not surfacing.

 

[Manjula Ellepola]

Thanks for the heads up dmz. We will be sure to have lengthy disclaimers if this was to come out. One interesting point raised by CT earlier in this thread was that this device could be a danger as it will encourage divers to separate. I can understand this point. From the same token aren't dive computers dangerous devices as they encourage divers to go deeper and for longer duration of time thereby putting the divers at greater risk?

 

[dmaziuk]

Thanks for the heads up dmz. We will be sure to have lengthy disclaimers if this was to come out. One interesting point raised by CT earlier in this thread was that this device could be a danger as it will encourage divers to separate. I can understand this point. From the same token aren't dive computers dangerous devices as they encourage divers to go deeper and for longer duration of time thereby putting the divers at greater risk?

"Promote buddy separation" is a straw man argument and you should know better than reply with dive computers promoting deeper longer dives. They don't and it won't.

What you should understand is that for a missing diver who fails to surface the "better outcome" is body recovery. I don't think that is the sales pitch you want to make for a vapourware product that your target demographic does not seem to be overly excited about to begin with.