Cruise ship runs aground in Raja Ampat

[Wookie]

Which brings me back to my original point - the cruise ship that ran aground on the reef was not a LOB. It was one of those giant cruise ships that has hundreds and hundreds of passengers on board.

Bringing in yet another permit is not going to do anything about huge ships passing through and wrecking the place.

I see where you're coming from, I just think it's tangential to the real issue here. Huge cruise ships and mass tourism.

And actually my response was to Diving Dubai. Regarding cruise ships grounding, had this happened in the US, in a marine park, the pain would never end. Although not required for my operations, I had a natural resources protection policy so that if I did go aground in the park or sanctuary, I would not lose my business. I expect that the cruise ship in question also had such a policy.

Sadly, vessels go aground every day for a plethora of reasons, and not all are the fault or poor management. This particular captain probably did not wake up that morning with the thought "I think I'll tear up a couple of hundred acres of reef this afternoon".

 

[Wingy]

It's Indonesia. Different animal. It would be great if one of the LOB ops can let us know if there is any natural resources protection policy in existence. I highly doubt it. Also if there is, who is enforcing it.

 

[billt4sf]

It's Indonesia. Is any GOVERNMENTAL agency protecting any natural resource, anywhere?

They can't even seem to get it together to institute basic things like regular garbage pickup (which would do a lot to reduce the ocean plastic problem.)

Which is why I am a big fan of Misool Resort. At least they are doing something!

Someone tell me other NGO's that are doing good things for the ocean in Indo. I'll contribute to them. WildAid I heard.

- Bill

 

[Mike Veitch]

It's Indonesia. Is any GOVERNMENTAL agency protecting any natural resource, anywhere?

They can't even seem to get it together to institute basic things like regular garbage pickup (which would do a lot to reduce the ocean plastic problem.)

Which is why I am a big fan of Misool Resort. At least they are doing something!

Someone tell me other NGO's that are doing good things for the ocean in Indo. I'll contribute to them. WildAid I heard.

- Bill

CI, but they are a large one. Better to invest your money in grass roots one IMHO, Misool is a good example.

 

[billt4sf]

CI, but they are a large one. Better to invest your money in grass roots one IMHO, Misool is a good example.

CI?

I agree with your suggestions about grass-roots ones.

 

[crookshanky]

...LOB's using the area are asked to contribute. Between them all I believe they only donate $20,000! They are happy to line their own pockets whilst others pick up the tab. Scandalous...

I recently did an 11 day LOB in Raja and paid $250 USD in marine park fees. My math puts that one boat at $20 000 in marine park fees in seven trips.

...It not like they put that much money back to the local economy...

I would assume the many local dive guides and crew members employed by these LOBs would spend their wages in the local economy. Not to mention the many tourists spending on transportation, meals and accommodations. I have no references to back this claim but I would wager that the LOB industry accounts for a large portion of the local GDP in places like Sorong.

 

[billt4sf]

I recently did an 11 day LOB in Raja and paid $250 USD in marine park fees. My math puts that one boat at $20 000 in marine park fees in seven trips.

I would assume the many local dive guides and crew members employed by these LOBs would spend their wages in the local economy. Not to mention the many tourists spending on transportation, meals and accommodations. I have no references to back this claim but I would wager that the LOB industry accounts for a large portion of the local GDP in places like Sorong.

I'm sure the large number of LOBs put lots of money into the local economy. The question is what is being done to ensure the quality of sea life for future generations? $200 per pax per trip costing $3,000 is 6 - 7% from the passenger side. One boat $20K / year times 100 (?) boats is $2M. Does anyone know what actually gets done with that money?

I am cynical about how the Indo government works. When I want to get something done, like a visa, I generally pay someone who pays someone who pays someone....and then it gets done. And then usually oh by the way, there is something else you need so cough up some more...

My point here is that I question whether these Park Fees are being well spent. Based on not much information, I would tend to think that the NGOs are actually accomplishing more environmentally than the Indo government. Someone tell me I am wrong.

- Bill

 

[crookshanky]

I'm sure the large number of LOBs put lots of money into the local economy. The question is what is being done to ensure the quality of sea life for future generations? $200 per pax per trip costing $3,000 is 6 - 7% from the passenger side. One boat $20K / year times 100 (?) boats is $2M. Does anyone know what actually gets done with that money?

I am cynical about how the Indo government works. When I want to get something done, like a visa, I generally pay someone who pays someone who pays someone....and then it gets done. And then usually oh by the way, there is something else you need so cough up some more...

My point here is that I question whether these Park Fees are being well spent. Based on not much information, I would tend to think that the NGOs are actually accomplishing more environmentally than the Indo government. Someone tell me I am wrong.

- Bill

I agree with you Bill. Not sure how transparent and accountable the Indo government is when it comes to marine park fees. In all fairness though, it's not just the Indonesian government. My government (Canada) wastes an incredible amount of money on inefficient systems and agencies. I would love to see NGO's replace government agencies. I would rather have my taxes used by Nonprofits that are typically run by people driven by other factors besides money.

 

[Dan]

 

[Luko]

My point here is that I question whether these Park Fees are being well spent. Based on not much information, I would tend to think that the NGOs are actually accomplishing more environmentally than the Indo government. Someone tell me I am wrong.

Governance models pros and cons may be discussed, I think it all depends on which organization are using the money and how. I tend to think some regional govts may think more local and are doing better than specialized NGOs.

I don't think the North Sulawesi park fee system was unefficient at some time, although the park fees are levied upon regional govt decree, the programs were decided/managed by a board which inncluded members such as the dive centers, on the model of the Bonaire MP.

On teh other hand I would never give a pence to most of the NGOs operating in Mozambique or Siem Reap, these are places where NGOs are mostly profit oriented businesses, using white boys more on vacation than on a mission, where private funds are for the most financing private brand new 4WDs with tinted glass and when donations are not money you find most of it for sale on the market.