Crew handing BP/W international diving

[Centrals]

I have yet to come across any rack designed for BPW.
I have no problem for anyone handling my kit because I always check it afterwards.

 

[redacted]

OK, I can respect that. However, I don't understand it.

I'm going to go below the surface where I can't breathe - and probably not survive - without my gear in working order. Who do I trust to set up my gear? Me, whose life depends on the gear having been assembled and set up properly, or some - more or less - underpaid guy who has a bunch of other people to cater for? Bottom line, if I ever find myself below 30m of water without any source of breathing gas and no buoyancy, I'd prefer that the person to blame was myself. Ergo, I set up my gear myself. YMMV.

Do you really believe you would probably die if faced with a (serious) gear failure??

If so, you probably need to do some work on your emergency drills until you get to the point where you know you will almost surely survive any gear failure.

I usually take care of my own gear but have no problem with reasonably qualified crew and others helping me when they want to do that. There is very little they could do by accident that would put me in danger.

 

[RJP]

I have yet to come across any rack designed for BPW.

On the other hand, I've yet to come across a boat/rack that did NOT accommodate a BP/W.

In fact, I'm not sure what about a BP/W rig would preclude it being held in place by any rack that would accommodate a standard recreational BCD. The vast majority of racks on the vast majority of boats hold the tank... so the particulars of the rig are immaterial.

 

[geoff w]

We just got back from Wakatobi in Indonesia two weeks ago. On the first day I made it clear I would set up our gear and they were OK with that (we were the only ones). I also swapped our tanks between dives instead of letting them. The Indonesians all want to help, but most of them aren't divers. About a third of the divers had backplates and wings. I found it was much easier than getting Hawaii dive operators to let us set up our own gear.

The best argument you can use is asking them if they are going to dive your gear for you. Unless they say yes, you can tell them that since you're diving it, you are personally responsible for setting it up and inspecting it before dives. If they don't speak good English and say they will dive your gear for you, just smile and say "great, then I'll set up your gear" and they'll get the message pretty quick

 

[Storker]

Do you really believe you would probably die if faced with a (serious) gear failure??

If so, you probably need to do some work on your emergency drills until you get to the point where you know you will almost surely survive any gear failure.

For the sake of keeping this discussion civil, I'll interpret that as a general "you", not as a personal "you". Even if I suspect the opposite.

It's not about lack of skills or believing that OMG I'M GONNA DIE!!!111!!!! if one has a gear failure. If that's the case, additional training is definitely recommended. It's about avoiding problems. According to a 2010 study¹, gear malfunction/gear failure was the trigger for about 15% of the 947 fatalities investigated. That's one in seven. The only triggers more common than gear malfunction were OOG and entanglements. OOG is usually completely under the diver's control. Entanglements are more of a pot-shot, but can at least partially be controlled by the diver. Gear issues can be controlled pretty well if the diver uses their own gear, keeps it maintained and sets it up - or at least goes thoroughly over the assembly - themself.

I think it's good to maintain a healthy dose of paranoia when diving. It keeps you (general "you") on your toes and prevents you from becoming complacent in an environment that can kill you in a very unpleasant way. I agree that if you (again, general "you") really believed that you couldn't handle a moderate gear malfunction and die from it, you shouldn't be diving. But since I prefer that the deck is stacked for me - not against me - in any possible way, I think it's a good thing to take personal responsibility for the gear one is using.

But as I said in my previous post, YMMV.



¹ P.J. Denoble, J.L. Caruso, G. de L. Dear, C.F. Pieper, R.D. Vann: "Common causes of open-circuit recreational diving fatalities", UHM (Undersea and Hyperbaric Medicine Journal) 35(6), 393-406

 

[jh_MacLeod]

On the other hand, I've yet to come across a boat/rack that did NOT accommodate a BP/W. In fact, I'm not sure what about a BP/W rig would preclude it being held in place by any rack that would accommodate a standard recreational BCD. The vast majority of racks on the vast majority of boats hold the tank... so the particulars of the rig are immaterial.

The problem is not about holding the tank; it's about pinching the bladder. On boats that use holes in the seats to hold the tanks, the wells are typically so deep that the bladder is in danger because it is sandwiched between the backplate and the hard deck, especially for people like me who mount the tank very high because of trim issues. I usually have to put something in the well, under the tank, to lift it higher so that there is less chance of damage. Boat crews, even if aware of how I want the rig to be mounted on the tank, are used to slinging tanks around without worry of wing damage. So, I choose to do it myself .

 

[Rusty Roo]

(I can hear a chorus of "no one touches my gear" but I do not find that this works for me -- I don't want to carry the tank + gear through the surf zone onto the boat, for example. And I do want them to switch tanks for me on a pitching boat.)

Bill

you said it and still people answer the question with "no one touches my gear"

as far pinching the wing on obviously you just need to move the bands up the tank.
secondly, make sure all your hoses are clipped off and if you run a 2m hose tie a loose not in it and clip it away.

i have found crew looked at my gear a little differently but essentially treated it the same as a "conventional" bcd.

 

[AdivingBel]

On the other hand, I've yet to come across a boat/rack that did NOT accommodate a BP/W.
is pretty universal
In fact, I'm not sure what about a BP/W rig would preclude it being held in place by any rack that would accommodate a standard recreational BCD. The vast majority of racks on the vast majority of boats hold the tank... so the particulars of the rig are immaterial.

I've used racks that don't work very well with 2 cam bands, but bp/w didn't have anything to do with it. I've not had any trouble on vacation dive/valet boats. Sometimes the crew will ask me about some aspect of my rig, but hooking up a reg and slipping straps over a tank is pretty universal. Of course I check that my air is on etc. as I try not to die. So far I've been relatively successful (still breathing last I checked.) YMMV

 

[phoenix31tt]

I've never had a problem with any racks... The ones that hold the bottom of the tank don't affect my rig...

The ones we use locally have the arms that come up to hold the tanks... These are problematic with my lower cam band when I have the weight pocket with weight in it... Other than that it's all good...

I see more problems with them handling the bungeed second... A number of times when they changed over tanks I would find my bungee around the tank valve... I.e. Trapped by the regulator... Long hose is always clipped off so no dropping and smashing my primary


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[Diving Dubai]

My international liveaboards are limited to Indonesia, Thailand, Red Sea, Maldives and the Philippines. Each time the crew have showed us our tank and told us to set up our gear ourselves. All tank rack just seated the tanks and the gear was held in place by webbing straps (weight belts). Tanks were filled from whips so your gear never got disassembled. The most the crew does is assist you getting in your gear, or if you take it off on the tender boat they would bring it back to your station. In all but Thailand the Guides had wings, indeed did the majority of divers. Never had an issue taking my wing abroad and they are more common than people think