Creation vs. Evolution

[Hank49]

Hank! How long have you known me? Have you ever known me to just lay it out?

I'm guessing 4 more pages? 8?

 

[Uncle Pug]

as it is, we can't even comprehend what or why someone would believe in such a creature.

Yes, I understand that is the case.

 

[Soggy]

Soggy, do you think that spirituality is rational?

I believe that it is a rationalization of the observable world, yes. I do not think that, knowing what we know about science, that it is a correct rationalization.

 

[adurso]

This is specifically not my question. I'm not asking about religion, nor am I asking how this might appeal to the individual who wants to expain things.

I'm asking how *believing* evolved and specifically, what advantage did *believing* bestow on the proto-believers that caused them to be successful in the survival of the fittest?


That sidesteps the question by stating it as a conclusion.

So the question could be framed for you as; "Why did a psychological need to know, ect. evolve? How does having a psychological need to know confer any survival benefit?

Sorry, I misunderstood the "religiousity" term; The capacity for "belief" or "spirituality" is part and parcel with the capacity for abstract thought, that which is not within the moment. How does this relate to survival you ask? Imagine yourself occupied solely with the business of survival, you have soft skin, no teeth nor claws to speak of, you must run and hide lest you become something or someone elses meal; and one day you notice, during a prime example of your tribes fight or flight demonstration, that the thigh bone your mate was waving about might be used to bash the animal or other tribe hunting you....and thus the weapons race begins. The ability to work in the abstract enables the survival of your tribe or kin group.

Belief is an abstract concept, spirituality is an abstract concept. Looking over the horizon and wondering what is over there, when your hunting grounds become slim, is an absrtact concept.

At one point in time there were less than 60,000 homo sapiens on this planet, the migrations out of Africa came in waves, all based upon climatological changes, those who survived and bred had the ability to conceptualize better conditions elsewhere, and to seek those conditions.

Or I am misunderstanding your question yet again....

 

[H2Andy]

However I do see spirituality (for lack of a better term) as more than just an idea or even set of ideas. I see it as an inherent attribute of humankind.

i see it as a byproduct of a powerful brain (relatively speaking) that evolved primarily to keep us alive.

since we had all that brainpower at our disposal, we got to developing art, spirituality,
and tons of ways of killing ourselves.

spirituality is part of the human arsenal, just like weapons of mass destruction are. it's just a tool we developed to deal with certain problems.

what you are essentially saying is that God must exist because there is in humanity a desire to find God.

well, there's a desire in humanity to find the alchemist stone, or the fountain of youth, but that doesn't mean just because we want to find them that those items must really exist

 

[adza]

Personally, I find it interesting with evolution that it is the only 'science' that ignores the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

I don't buy into evolution, and from what I've experienced - science disproves the theory of evolution more than it adds credit. (Especially when you start looking into Quantum Physics). It's just that "he who speaks loudest" is heard, and in this modern day and age the schoolbooks and TV documentaries are full of evolution statements. It's part of our human trait that we normally believe what we hear most of.

However, in the end - it doesn't matter what anyone believes - truth is truth.

If the truth is that there is no God, and we all 'end' when we die - it doesn't matter what we believe, we all end up the same.

If the truth is that there is a God, and we end up in different places when we die - then it does matter what we believe / do - as it will have a large impact in the future.

So - if 2 offers are given:

1) The chance to win everything, but you can't loose - the worst is you leave with what you have, but the chance is there for you to winall, or

2) The chance for you to loose, and the best you can hope for is that nothing happens at all

... I know which one the prudent betting man would go for.

 

[H2Andy]

Personally, I find it interesting with evolution that it is the only 'science' that ignores the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

lol... here we go again. actually, evolution isn't a 'science' ... but anyway...

say, why don't we start by quoting the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

(i'll save you some time; it's about closed systems, and Earth is not a closed system)

1) The chance to win everything, but you can't loose - the worst is you leave with what you have, but the chance is there for you to winall, or

2) The chance for you to loose, and the best you can hope for is that nothing happens at all

... I know which one the prudent betting man would go for.

but what if you bet everything on the wrong God?

wouldn't the prudent betting man bet on all possible Gods?

how many Gods are you betting on?

 

[Hank49]

If betting on more Gods is like betting on more horses or crap tables, no, you won't get a better return on your money. I don't know exactly what you'll get though if you "win" by betting on a specific God.

 

[H2Andy]

If betting on more Gods is like betting on more horses or crap tables, no, you won't get a better return on your money.

well, but this is not a craps table and we're not talking about return on your money.

this is if you bet on the right God, you live for ever.

if you bet on the wrong God, you don't.

wouldn't you want to bet on as many Gods as you can? ups your chances of picking the right one.

and if one God says: you can't bet on anyone but me

and another God says: bet on me and everybody else you want

which one is a better investment?

seems to me by Adza's logic, the Christian God is not a very good investment

 

[Hank49]

That's why I don't bet....so if the rules of Christianity apply, I better start investing in asbestos.....