Creation vs. Evolution

[adurso]

Sooo .... I gotta ask .... if people evolved from hairier primates, of what benefit in cold climates was losing all the body hair?

People evolved in a warm climate, then spread out across the world in several waves from Africa. (Mitochondrial DNA studies tend to lead credence to this, by the by) The loss of body hair came about in a very warm climate, prior to the whole wearing clothing thing. Hair on certain parts of the body concentrates smell, which acts as a sexual trigger. Those who were able to attract mates reproduced, we are their descendants.

When the emigrations began homo sapiens was much as we are today, fairly furless. Upon reaching colder climates those who survived learned how to wear clothing, thus no need to breed fur back into the species.

Anecdotal evidence (the top of my head) indicates we are losing body hair to this day.....

 

[Snowbear]

People evolved in a warm climate, then spread out across the world in several waves from Africa. (Mitochondrial DNA studies tend to lead credence to this, by the by) The loss of body hair came about in a very warm climate, prior to the whole wearing clothing thing. Hair on certain parts of the body concentrates smell, which acts as a sexual trigger. Those who were able to attract mates reproduced, we are their descendants.

When the emigrations began homo sapiens was much as we are today, fairly furless. Upon reaching colder climates those who survived learned how to wear clothing, thus no need to breed fur back into the species.

Anecdotal evidence (the top of my head) indicates we are losing body hair to this day.....

Actually, fur on animals works both ways - insulates from cold as well as protects the skin from sun burning.

So how come the apes that 'evolved' in the same warm climate still have fur?

 

[adurso]

Actually, fur on animals works both ways - insulates from cold as well as protects the skin from sun burning.

So how come the apes that 'evolved' in the same warm climate still have fur?

Apes are not humans; may as well ask why house dogs still have fur....The savannah that early man came from is not the same environment the great apes evolved in.

Actually fur does not offer protection from sunburn, set a short haired house dog out in the sun for a bit and see. Again, anecdotally, the fur on my head does not protect from sunburn either.....

Humans have melanin, which ends up in melanosomes protecting the cell nucleus from uv rays. Sunlight stimulates production of vitamin D, lots of melanin in the epidermis produces dark skin, dark skin in sunlight deficient areas results in vitamin D deficiency expressed as rickets. Those who survived to breed would have lighter skin, thus leading to ethnic variations as observed today.

We lost our fur because we developed sweat glands, sweat cools by evaporation, fur inhibits evaporation; apes have less sweat glands than humans, apes also have less melanin than humans, the long coarse fur does offer some protection from the sun, but the forest canopies offer more. There was no need for apes to lose their fur

 

[H2Andy]

Sooo .... I gotta ask .... if people evolved from hairier primates, of what benefit in cold climates was losing all the body hair?

excellent question...

humans lost their hair in Africa, and spread "hairless" from there. when they colonized colder climates, instead of "growing" hair, they just wore pelts, skins, etc.

cultural evolution took the place of re-growing the hair lost in Africa

so... why did humans lose their hair in Africa to begin with? (chimps and gorillas kept their hair)

well, unlike chimps and gorillas, proto-humans began to walk on two legs (humans are the only primate that does so).

a quadrupedal posture would have exposed the body to about 60 percent more solar radiation than a bipedal one. standing tall thus will result in a substantial reduction in water loss (through less sweating) and the upright body could also catch the cooler breeze above the ground (helping further cool us)

thus, we didn't need hair anymore for keeping heat out and keeping heat in, except for the head (which was directly exposed to the sun) and perhaps the shoulders. better sweat glands was the way to go, so our bodies shed hair and developed better sweat glands.

so... why are we the "hairless ape?" because we do'nt need the insulation of hair once we started walking upright.

why don't we grow hair back when we get to cold climates? we do... it's just that it's artificial hair.

So how come the apes that 'evolved' in the same warm climate still have fur?

because they never developed into bipedal locomotion, like we did.

as stated above, we basically shed our hair when we didn't need it anymore once we stood up

 

[Soggy]

What's an idea?

It seems to me that if there's no God and no sole (is that the way it works?) and life sprang up out of the ooz by a pure chance combination of chemicals, that a "thought" is just a biochemical reaction. It would think that it must have a cause.

Yes, thoughts are just electrobiochemical reactions. We can measure them. Cats, dogs, and rabbits all have these reactions as well. We are not unique...we are just more (dare I say it) evolved.

The causes of thoughts are external and internal stimuli. You know, I tell you that you're wrong and you think up a reason to tell me why I'm wrong. Stimuli and response. I'm not a neurobiologist nor a psychologist, so I don't know the details beyond that.

Sorry to pipe in Mike,

Agree that *IF* evolution were true, then thought is just a reaction to chemical changes and zero free will can exist.

Not that I believe that your hypothesis here is true...biology does not negate free will...but it is true that we are only free to a certain extent. Our thoughts and decisions are influenced by those around us.

 

[H2Andy]

I only had time to do a little looking but I haven't been able to find anything that really correlates intelligence with the size of the frontal lobe or, for that matter, any specific physical attribute.

the frontal lobe (or frontal cortex) is the front part of the brain, involved in planning, organizing, problem solving, selective attention, personality and a variety of "higher cognitive functions" including behavior and emotions.

pretty much everything that is "human" about us rests on the frontal lobe.

here's a page for kids that covers it pretty well:

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/front.html

note that we don't have a proportionatelly larger frontal lobe from the great apes, but we have an INCREDIBLY larger frontal cortex volume.

human volume is in the range of 250-350 cm3
whereas great apes volume is in the range of 75 to 125 cm3

if you want to find out what makes us "human," that's the place to look

 

[BIGSAGE136]

Consciousness once defined, will prove to be the answer to it all. The truth is there is no singularity. Our existence is the result of something totally Other.

 

[Snowbear]

because they never developed into bipedal locomotion, like we did.

as stated above, we basically shed our hair when we didn't need it anymore once we stood up

LOL - based on your theory, kangaroos should have shed their fur as well

 

[Soggy]

5 Major Misconceptions About Evoltion:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

Basically for those that claim that evolution has never been observed...you are wrong

For those that claim that evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics: you are wrong. Not only are you wrong, you also don't understand the theory of evolution nor that of thermodynamics.

For those that claim that there are no transitional fossils: you are wrong.

These are basic factual errors that have been repeatedly brought up in this thread. Remove your blinders. I accept that you may believe in god or religion. I even respect that. Heck, I'm marrying a Catholic! But the Theory of Evolution is nearly irrefutable. Not one single valid point has been made in this entire thread that sheds even a shadow of doubt on the theory of evolution. Doesn't that tell you something? No one has been able to ever come up with any evidence that disproves the theory....no one. Couldn't it just be that it's the real story and that the tales written down in a book with unknown authors could be the ones that are incorrect?

 

[H2Andy]

LOL - based on your theory, kangaroos should have shed their fur as well

hmm... not really

kangaroos have smaller body masses than we do and produce less heat than we do, thus losing hair doesn't become a priority for them. they need the hair they have.

think about this: an animal with hair to keep cool for crawling starts to get upright. how does it regulate its body temperature? well, it sheds its hair that it doesn't need anymore

kangaroos didn't have our problem. they evolved "standing up" and kept just enough hair to stay comfortable.

two different evolutionary paths, two different animals

oh, also, i wish it was my theory. i'd be teaching at some awesome University ...
nah, all this stuff is stuff i read