Creation vs. Evolution

[sandjeep]

With that, I'm afraid that I'm going to bow out of this thread because it has turned to personal attacks and I've gotten some strange PM's. The tolerant secularists can be a scary bunch at times.

So rather then attack your statements in the open, someone is sending you PMs? In my line of work, we have a word for that. I'm sorry to see you go Mike as I very much enjoyed your writing.

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

To Sandjeep

As for neanderthals, consider the books The neanderthal legacy (Mellars 1995) or In Search of neanderthals (Stringer and Gamble)... you can pull up a couple thousand references from Google Scholar from major sources, example: Nature 404:490 (2000) describing the first extraction of DNA from neanderthal remains. Anyone who questions the coexistence of neanderthals and homo sapiens for a time in Western Europe is stretching the whole "we need to question science" mantra to absurdity.

As for the old "I don't have kids so why pay school taxes", I say fine, don't pay school taxes, but don't use the services of anyone who went to public school. That's right, why go to that auto mechanic who was brainwashed anyway. I don't like the system very much either, but it ostensibly exists for the common good, not just for those with children in it. We pay for a lot of common services that we may not personally use or need directly. Welcome to the Social Contract.

As for being a non-denominational Christian, not a Catholic, I reiterate my earlier posts: you are about one-percent away from Catholic. Do you believe in Christ? the resurrection? Read the new testament? Accept the cross as a symbol? believe in the ultimate return of Christ? Who do you think nurtured these concepts and kept them alive for 15 centuries through the persecution and ignorance of early Europe?

It's like saying you believe in evolution but are not a Darwinist, or accept relativity but are not a follower of Einstein. You can't take a fully formed dogma, theology and literature of over a millenia and a half, make a few stylistic modifications and call it your own. The Church chose the gospels you quote and kept them alive, not Martin Luther of Calvin or Jimmy Swaggart.

This isn't chauvinism or pride, just historical fact.

As for teaching people to think, religion and relgious schools are really in the forefront on that issue? I think not.

 

[TCDiver1]

As for teaching people to think, religion and relgious schools are really in the forefront on that issue? I think not.

..... so tell that to the Jesuits. I'd say they tend to do as good as the next.

 

[H2Andy]

Gee Andy, I think that's a complete misrepresentation of what I said. In your example I said that I believed that Jesus was refering to the transfiguration.

well, that's because you omit the context (what was said immediately preceding the statement) and instead rely on Bible verses from far and wide that have nothing to with the passage in question.

i could make almost anything in the Bible mean something else that way

With that, I'm afraid that I'm going to bow out of this thread because it has turned to personal attacks and I've gotten some strange PM's. The tolerant secularists can be a scary bunch at times.

well, that just sucks ... what you should do isntead is report the personal attacks and have the guilty parties be dealt with by the Mods, and report the PM's if they are also personal attacks, or ignore them if they're just weird...

 

[H2Andy]

..... so tell that to the Jesuits. I'd say they tend to do as good as the next.

bah, i can only name four Jesuit colleges, Georgetown University, Boston College,
Gonzaga, and Loyola..... hmmm...

Fordham...

it never ends!!!

 

[The Chairman]

It would appear to me that many would like to dabble in the spiritual using only the physical to do so.

Andy talked earlier about some "not tasting death", which shows man's preoccupation with our physical condition. I would suggest that there is a spiritual "death" which has nothing to do with existence, but with a quality of life.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. NIV

The death encountered in the Garden was immediate and a spiritual death, which is why they lived longer.

Many theists use this to demonstrate that there could have been no physical death before the "Garden Incident". To this, I would point out that this is the simplified version and that "Adam and Eve" are generic humans used to describe the upcoming sentience of man.

Much of the Old Testament was handed down verbally long before it was recorded for posterity. It seems to me that this is more a record of man trying to understand God than a blow by blow description of these events by God himself. In the Old Testament we see our loving God being blamed for many wars and atrocities. Personally, I cannot believe that a loving God would do such a thing, and so my view on Scriptures.

 

[H2Andy]

Much of the Old Testament was handed down verbally long before it was recorded for posterity. It seems to me that this is more a record of man trying to understand God than a blow by blow description of these events by God himself. In the Old Testament we see our loving God being blamed for many wars and atrocities. Personally, I cannot believe that a loving God would do such a thing, and so my view on Scriptures.

does this mean that the Bible was writen by men, and that at any one given time, what we get written down as "scripture" is those men's views of God, which may or may not be accurate? or perhaps accurate as to the underlying teaching or meaning, but not accurate as to its specific details?

if the answer is yes, I agree with you. if the answer is no, i have no clue what you just said

 

[Midnight Star]

A man brings forth out of his treasures things both old and new. As we read, and as God has given us faith, we conceive and bring forth something new ... as to whether God approves, only He can say.

-----

Mike.

 

[adurso]

..... so tell that to the Jesuits. I'd say they tend to do as good as the next.

I was trained by Jesuits at St. Joseph's College as an undergraduate; my questioning, aggravating personality comes from them. I was not of the Catholic faith, but attended a Catholic college because it is a good school. Though i would not describe St. Joe's as a religious school, the Jesuits do indeed train one to question authority...

 

[adurso]

bah, i can only name four Jesuit colleges, Georgetown University, Boston College,
Gonzaga, and Loyola..... hmmm...

Fordham...

it never ends!!!

St. Joseph University...