Creation vs. Evolution

[lamont]

A world view, that probably isn't even close to being representative of the majority.

Globally your world view isn't representative of the majority.

And here's the top stats:

# Christianity 2.1 billion
# Islam 1.3 billion
# Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist 1.1 billion
# Hinduism 900 million
# Buddhism 708 million

So it looks like you gotta deal with a whole ugly pile of Secularists out there anyway -- nice try at marginalizing all of us...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Everything in this post is taken from your own bias toward Christianity.

Really? Where in my post did I ever suggest that Christianity should be favored above any other religion?

Do you really believe that to take some lovely little Buddhist children and shove the Bible down their throat is doing them anything but a disservice? It's not handicapping them to not to

I don't believe that anyone should have anything shoved down their throat. I thought I was pretty clear in stating my beliefe that a religious education is important but that I didn't think the public school system should be expected to provide it. If it doesn't take place in the public school that would leave it up to the parents, Wouldn't it? How would buddhist children end up with parents who would shove the Bible down their throat? I guess, I'm not clear on exactly what your objection is here.

You're really touching the line on the kind of missionary work that has been rebelled against and resented all over the world.

Where did I say anything at all about missionary work? As long as we're on the subject though...Which missionary work are you talking about and who is it who has resented and rebelled against it?

What is wrong with letting people live a secular life?

I don't think that anything is wrong with letting people live a secular life.

I don't give a rat's patootie what you worship at the end of the day but do I really have to "take a moment to praise Jesus" if I want to go see a football game?

Football game? I've never been to one but do they force those who attend to praise Jesus? Is someone forcing you to or are you wishing that you could force them not to? If that's off base, I apologize but the football thing threw me and I couldn't help but take a guss.

I'd like to hear examples of laws that are being passed that violate the traditions of "most major religions."

R

After seeing someone elses reply it looks like posting such might be pushing the TOS a bit. It doesn't take much imagination to identify some of those legeslative activities though.

 

[Zingtea]

but, to repeat, humans do self-awareness like the US does music, movies, software, and pizza

Actually, Italy does the best pizza. We invented it.
Sorry for replying to an old post, but H2Andy is still here I think.

 

[H2Andy]

Actually, Italy does the best pizza. We invented it.
Sorry for replying to an old post, but H2Andy is still here I think.

wow... i know i wrote that, what ... two days ago? but still, it's good to see my old post resurrected

 

[H2Andy]

We blame God for this?

so how come some folks praise God when good things happen to them?

oh, it was God's work that i passed my exam, or got my job...etc

well, how about when bad things happen? is that God's work too?

how come it's not God's doing when a hurricane kills a bunch of babies and old folks?
that's just nature.

but when a virus kills homosexuals, that's God's work ... oops... but the virus kills everybody else too ...

look, i am just saying that the evidence seems to point out that God doesn't much care for what happens on Earth, one way or another, if he exists at all.

he is irrelevant to me. i can accomplish everything i need in life and live a good life (though not a perfect life) without God.

dude comes down and tells me to go save pygmies in New Zealand, i'm there. dude stays up wherever and never shows up, i got my life to get on with.

 

[MikeFerrara]

It suggests that humanity is the 'centre' of creation ....and the high point. I find that arrogant in the extreme.

I don't think I understand your objection. Man is smack dab in the middle of Biblical events for the obvious reason that the subject of the Bible is mans relationship with God. Essentially two main characters, God and man.

With the political will of the most powerful nation on Earth hell bent on making it true I fully expect the news to reflect that...which it does. I also fully believe that this amount of corrupt power has every capability of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. I see it as a tragedy not the coming of the 'Kingdom of Heaven'.

Are you saying that you think that the US is actively working to fulfil Biblical prophesy? If you are, I'd like to hear more about what makes you think that.

That said, I fully believe that everyone is, and should be, free to believe for themselves what they want. After all....that's 'free will' right? The issues only start to arise when people try to impose their own beliefs on others....by force....by implicit threat...by coercion etc...
In the case of trying to do this to children in school it's completely reprehensible IMO.

I agree and I think I was pretty explicit that some things should be taught outside of the public school system. At the same time there are ideologies not related to the ciriculum that are routinely being pushed in public schools today that I think absolutely fall into that same catagory.

Unfortunately we're going to get stuck on the TOS here if you ask me what I think they are.

You may talk about sunsets, beauty, feelings etc etc as you will but that will never compare to the stark reality of the fossil/geological record confirmed by carbon dating and laid out in front of my eyes by Life itself....not some human intermediary claiming to represent it. To me one is a matter of fact while the other is a matter of faith - much the same as the 'flat world' argument was in it's own day.......

The raw data may be considered facts (aside from measurement and collection error) but unless you see it all and analyze it yourself, you are depending on a human intermediary. Aren't you? Many a scientific study has been recanted due to either additional data or errors found in data collection or analysis. It happens all the time and it's going to happen some more.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Globally your world view isn't representative of the majority.

And here's the top stats:

# Christianity 2.1 billion
# Islam 1.3 billion
# Secular/Atheist/Irreligious/Agnostic/Nontheist 1.1 billion
# Hinduism 900 million
# Buddhism 708 million

So it looks like you gotta deal with a whole ugly pile of Secularists out there anyway -- nice try at marginalizing all of us...

I didn't say that "my view" was in the majority. I said that a purely secular view was not representative of the majority and I think your numbers agree. Secular 1.1 billion...non-secular 5 billion. What happened to the Jewish? Don't you count them?

 

[H2Andy]

I thought that chimps and such could string symbols together to produce meta-symbols but still had a very finitely bounded symbolic communication which I would not consider to be language in the same sense that humans have language...

other apes do have the ability to use abstract symbols to convey meaning (which is all language is)

whales and dolphins also engage in symbolic activity

however, it does appear that humans are "hard wired" for language in a way that other animals are not

(for example, Helen Keller was able to learn sign language even though she was blind, deaf, and mute and had not seen, heard, or spoken since she was 19 months old -- an awesome feat, but she was working with her strength: humans do language, bottom line. she did it in a month, guys .... a month...)

 

[MikeFerrara]

so how come some folks praise God when good things happen to them?

oh, it was God's work that i passed my exam, or got my job...etc

well, how about when bad things happen? is that God's work too?

how come it's not God's doing when a hurricane kills a bunch of babies and old folks?
that's just nature.

but when a virus kills homosexuals, that's God's work ... oops... but the virus kills everybody else too ...

I gave the best answer that I know how to give on this topic pages and pages ago. Did you read it? The bear in the trap story and all of that? Not that you'd buy it but I tried. If you missed it or can't find it let me know and I'll dig up a link.

look, i am just saying that the evidence seems to point out that God doesn't much care for what happens on Earth, one way or another, if he exists at all.

I disagree that the evidence suggests that He doesn't care. I would agree that our short term happiness on this earth may not be His 1st prority.

he is irrelevant to me. i can accomplish everything i need in life and live a good life (though not a perfect life) without God.

dude comes down and tells me to go save pygmies in New Zealand, i'm there. dude stays up wherever and never shows up, i got my life to get on with.

I see several problems with your logid.

If He exists, you can't do anything unless He allows you to.

If He exists, He is relevant.

If He exists, He is not only relevant to this life on earth but to eternal life.

You say "if he exists at all" If He doesn't exist then it sounds like you're golden.

Finally, if you go to New Zealand to save pygmies, I think Rachel will be mad.

 

[H2Andy]

If He exists, you can't do anything unless He allows you to.

If He exists, He is relevant.

If He exists, He is not only relevant to this life on earth but to eternal life.

You say "if he exists at all" If He doesn't exist then it sounds like you're golden.

yeah, "if" is the key word

until he decides to show himself, i think i'll go on with my life

with all due respect, we could be talking about the Big Poofy Banana who created Kensington ...

how on earth do you test that?