Creation vs. Evolution

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I have no issues with believing in evolution AND God. In fact it is my personal belief that God designed the parameters under which evolution operates. Anything therefore, that has been produced by evolution has really been produced by God, who created that wonderfully subtle mechanism we are only now beginning to appreciate. You may see evolution as proof that there is no God, and I see it as incontrovertible evidence that God not only exists, but is far far smarter than we could ever fathom.

A higher plane of existance must exist to explain many of the things we have in our daily lives. Not the more tangible things like medicines, etc. Those have been a process of evolution, investigation and explanation to conclude the tangible.

I'm thinking of the unexplained, like a sunset that inspires. We know what causes all the things that come together to create the inspirational sunset. What we don't know is WHY they come together in that exact pattern. A higher plane of existance is needed in order to make the seemingly coincidental infinite number of "come-togethers" happen. Hence, there is a plan, and I see it as incontrovertible evidence of what many call God.

Religion, on the other hand, is quick to "crank up my screw". It often seems religion's only reason for existance is to muddy understanding and faith.

 

[H2Andy]

There is a moral compass in all of us. Right and wrong are at the core of all people. Some just don't recognize it as easily.

i'm not so sure about that ... i think we have to "learn" to be human.

the Khmer Rouge used young children to do their torturing and killing. they were pitiless. they had never learned anything but hate.

(when the work was done, the Khmer Rouge then killed the children)

one of the scariest things about being human is that you could easily grow up in a hateful society (Nazi Germany) and go forth and kill 6 million jews and not think that was wrong at all.

it's a pretty terrifying reality. that's why religions are so useful. they allow you to "justify" your morality by saying "God said this is good."

of course, what the "good" is can be anything, and not necessarily "good" at all.

thankfully, most religions and societies get it right (don't kill, try to be nice); every once in a while, you get abominations like Hitler, Stalin, and the Khmer Rouge.

i believe someone counted 45-50 genocides during the 20th and early 21st centuries, some based on ideology, some based on religion, some based on ethnicity, all based on hate

beware anything that teaches you hate.

 

[Soggy]

A higher plane of existance is needed in order to make the seemingly coincidental infinite number of "come-togethers" happen. Hence, there is a plan, and I see it as incontrovertible evidence of what many call God.

God must exist because we think sunsets are pretty? I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[H2Andy]

What we don't know is WHY they come together in that exact pattern.

exactly. religion used to be a way to explain what we didn' know (because God made it that way) among its many uses (justifying the existing social order is another)

i prefer science.

science can answer lots of questions; those that it can't answer, at least we can be honest about and say "we don't know."

(not, it's one of God's mysteries)

also, you're saying "it can't be all coincidence; it must all have a meaning; i must be special to God and God has a plan for me."

feels a lot better than "i'm a biological entity and when i die my corpse will rot"

but i prefer the truth, no matter how harsh, to what i consider fairy tales

 

[MikeFerrara]

Quote:
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7"
That makes absolutely no sense. Why should you fear the Lord? Isn't he, she, it or whatever an understanding, compassionate, benevolent entity?

This is a fair explanation taken from http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-proverbs-1-7.htm

In Proverbs 1:7...

The fear of the Lord is an attitude of respect toward God, which includes a healthy dread of displeasing Him. The fear of the Lord is about reverence toward God, respect for Him, love and appreciation, holding Him and His beloved Son in high esteem. And this is the attitude necessary in order for us to know and do what's right!

So if I want knowledge -- I must have this attitude! If I want to know and do what's right before God; if I want to learn to make ethical and moral distinctions to please God - this attitude must find residence in my heart: The fear of the Lord.

The reason many do not take God's Word seriously is, they do not have this attitude. They have no foundation of respect for God in their hearts. As a result of the absence of this kind of fear, they read or hear God's commandments and react: "I don't want to do that . . . I don't see anything wrong with this . . . I don't think I'm going to hell if I do this or neglect that!!" Without the fear of the Lord, there is no reason (in their hearts) to respect Him and obey Him. Faithful service to God and obedience to Christ is rooted in the FEAR OF THE LORD.

 

[ClevelandDiver]

No problem. Just stay where you are and ignor both of us?

If I move out of the way of the piano, I get hit by the vault. Since I can't see either, the only way I am going to find out if they are real, is when they hit me.

Step back for a minute and think of a person who has been exposed to neither Christianity or Islam and is simultaneously stopped by a priest and a cleric both offering the only true path to salvation. One or both have to be wrong, as neither allows that another religion could offer salvation.

It would be different if they both said live a good life and treat others with kindness and respect and you will get into heaven regardless of which particular religion you follow. Neither encourages you to question them or offers to educate you objectively about other religions. They both claim to be the one an only way to heaven.

And you still haven't answered my question. Were you born and raised Christian?

 

[mase]

One doesn't need fear to do the right thing. When I dive, I respect the ocean. If I feared it, I wouldn't be able to dive. I understand it's power and respect it. If I feared it, panic would be right around the corner.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

i'm not so sure about that ... i think we have to "learn" to be human.

the Khmer Rouge used young children to do their torturing and killing. they were pitiless. they had never learned anything but hate.

I believe the opposite is true. The children had to be taught to hate and go against basic humanity/morality

one of the scariest things about being human is that you could easily grow up in a hateful society (Nazi Germany) and go forth and kill 6 million jews and not think that was wrong at all.

They were taught to hate by the paradigms of a mad man

it's a pretty terrifying reality. that's why religions are so useful. they allow you to "justify" your morality by saying "God said this is good."

of course, what the "good" is can be anything, and not necessarily "good" at all.

thankfully, most religions and societies get it right (don't kill, try to be nice); every once in a while, you get abominations like Hitler, Stalin, and the Khmer Rouge.

That is why I am leery of religions. They preach one to believe in their ideology as THE one truth. If that teaching crosses basic human morality... oh, well.

i believe someone counted 45-50 genocides during the 20th and early 21st centuries, some based on ideology, some based on religion, some based on ethnicity, all based on hate

And, the teaching of hate

beware anything that teaches you hate.

Right!

Anything that teaches one to hate is crossing the base human morality at the core of every human.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Religion, on the other hand, is quick to "crank up my screw". It often seems religion's only reason for existance is to muddy understanding and faith.

Even if you believe in God or as I do, the God of the Bible, religion can be a stumbling block. Not all things religious are Godly and not all things religious will aid you in your walk with God.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

God must exist because we think sunsets are pretty? I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

Reading with a closed mind could lead you to this conclusion. Perhaps you would like to read the section about sunsets, and realize it isn't sunsets at all.