Creation vs. Evolution

[AXL72]

Of course aids isn't the fault of gays but it sure has been spread by them. Do you remember when the disease was first discovered? For a long time it was found only in gays. Of course now it is spread by all sorts of less than wise sexual behavior, behavior related to drug use and of course when those folks give blood and some inocent gets a good dose through transfusion. AIDS like many other diseases is largely a behavior problem. If people would behave for a while it would go away.

This notion is kiling me...i am crying...lirerally.

Cases in India: HIV and AIDS found around the trucking stops of India. Spread through non-homosexual sex between prostitutes and truckers at the brothels that line the trucking routes.

Cases in rural farmland in China: Many farmingcomunities ravished by HIV and AIDS through the infection of several persons at a time for the sake of obtaining plasma from blood. Several persons at a time would have their blood extracted and co-mingled into a common tub of blood for extraction of plasma before being reinjected with the co-mingled blood.

Come on, blame homosexuals solely for the transmision of HIV and AIDS? or is it just human nature in general. Back in the day, Haitians were blamed with the homosexuals. Not all Hatians were gay.

May I suggest that if any of the posters have not, that you all seriously read the book, "and the band played on". That will make you cry.

And for the record, I am a straight man, who believes there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay, lesbian, or bi.

 

[H2Andy]

This notion is kiling me...i am crying...lirerally.

well, he is correct as to the U.S.

it so happened that the AIDS epidemic was brought into the US by a homosexual airline crewmember, who then infected several lovers, who then did the same, etc.

so in the US, the transmission of the disease was initially tracked to homosexuals.

however, that is not the case in the rest of the world (AIDS was "discovered" in France, on a female patient). most of the world did not follow the US epidemic pattern.

again, remember that US AIDS patients are less than one percent of all the world's AIDS patients.

unfortunately, the fact that AIDS was linked to homosexuals in the US did a great deal to slow needed funding and research.

it was just an accident of history. the US is not typical.

the other "scapegoat" at the time, Haitians, were spreading AIDS almost exclusively through heterosexual sex. but this was conveniently forgotten by those who wanted to blame gays for the disease.

HIV is a mutated virus found in chimpanzees and other species (SIV) which then was transmitted to humans either through blood contact by killing chimpanzees or through bites or saliva from a chimp getting into cuts (HIV-1) or mangabey monkeys in the same way (HIV-2).

the first confirmed appearances of the virus in the west go back to the 1950's, and it probably first mutated into HIV in the 1930's.

these are among the earliest confirmed appearances of the virus:

1. A plasma sample taken in 1959 from an adult male living in what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo.

2. HIV found in tissue samples from an American teenager who died in St. Louis in 1969.

3. HIV found in tissue samples from a Norwegian sailor who died around 1976.


as you can see, the epidemic that spread through the homosexual community in the 1980's (and was at the same time spreading through Haiti and Africa, as well as Europe) had been long in coming, and had nothing to do with homosexuals.

http://www.avert.org/origins.htm

 

[AXL72]

Warthaug / Bryan

Good write up on HIV/AIDS!

Thank you!

 

[AXL72]

well, he is correct as to the U.S.

OK, point taken. I totally disagree about the blame undertones in the postings about homosexual men. It is so freaking counterproductive, as you rightly pointed out in the red tape associated with funding.

It could well have been brought in by a heterosexual male or female airline flight attendant or pilot who got his or her freak on with someone in Africa or France or whereever else HIV could have been at the time or in the future.

The point is well taken. But there are huge blame undertones, like "that one gay man spoiled sex as we kow it for the rest of us...boo hoo". Whether HIV AIDS made it here back in the 80's or in the 2100's, it is bad for all of us, and no one group should carry the burden of blame, which is expressed in the undertones.

"do not ask for whom the Bell tolls...it tolls for thee"


OK wait...u edited your post didn't u. well that makes my post a bit premature...sorry...disregard.....i am still contemplating whether to delete my post:freak:

 

[H2Andy]

It could well have been brought in by a heterosexual male or female airline flight attendant or pilot who got his or her freak on with someone in Africa or France or whereever else HIV could have been at the time or in the future.

can you imagine if all these stockbrokers in New York had been sleeping with Haitian prostitutes and coming down with AIDS in the 1980's, how different our reaction had been?

Mysterious Cruel Illness Cuts down Stockbrokers in the Prime of Life

CDC commits billions to find a cure

President Reagan asks Americans to pray for the unfortunate victims

:shakehead

 

[AXL72]

can you imagine if all these stockbrokers in New York had been sleeping with Haitian prostitutes and coming down with AIDS in the 1980's, how different our reaction had been?

Mysterious Cruel Illness Cuts down Stockbrokers in the Prime of Life

CDC commits billions to find a cure

President Reagan asks Americans to pray for the unfortunate victims

:shakehead

well said! and so true,

 

[AXL72]

this is along the lines my god and the ant farm scenario.....

That is deep, too. Whoa. Not gonna elaborate with a smart alecy comment, but makes us say hmmm, don't it.


Why spend all our time in churches when we can be spending our time doing something more productive....even if there is a god.

 

[Hank49]

Genes don't have to procreate to survive. The runt gene in litters succeeds genetically because in times of plenty the runt of the litter survives to procreate, while in times where there is scarcity the runt in the litter dies, but the gene lives on in the runt's siblings. .

True. The "normal" siblings still carry the genes and pass them on. The likelihood of their offspring having the "abnormality" is greater than average. Even more so if they mate with one also carrying the gene.
(I'm not a geneticist but we so see this phenomenon in shrimp breeding and farming)

 

[MikeFerrara]

I am not sure which I find more offensive...

The bigots that try to blame God or Christianity for all the wars and atrocities in the world.

or

The bigots that try to blame homosexuals for the AIDs epidemic.

Words can not begin to express the revulsion I feel when either argument is professed by those who claim to be rational caring human beings.

I picked your post first because it was the shortest and easiest.

Lets see if we can clear this up a little for those having trouble with reading for content in context.

Of course aids isn't the fault of gays but it sure has been spread by them. Do you remember when the disease was first discovered? For a long time it was found only in gays. Of course now it is spread by all sorts of less than wise sexual behavior, behavior related to drug use and of course when those folks give blood and some inocent gets a good dose through transfusion. AIDS like many other diseases is largely a behavior problem. If people would behave for a while it would go away.

Lets break it down further and look at the first sentence first. ok?

Of course aids isn't the fault of gays but it sure has been spread by them.

Note here that two things here are clearly stated. 1, that AIDS is not the fault of gays.

It sounds like most of you agree but this should really clear up a good portion of the objections. Do we have any questions or arguements?

2, That it has been spread by them.

It is not stated here that it is the only way that it has been spread nor is it even stated that it was the "first" way. Is someone here offering evidence to show that it has not been spread by them?

Lets go on.

For a long time it was found only in gays.

Some one pointed out (Andy, I think) that this was true in this country. ok, I'll accept that correction/clearification but it would seem to prove the second statement of the first sentence. Have they or have they not spread it? Unless someone has evidence that shows that AIDS has not been spread by gays we can put this in the fact catagory. ok?

Next

Cases in India: HIV and AIDS found around the trucking stops of India. Spread through non-homosexual sex between prostitutes and truckers at the brothels that line the trucking routes.

Cases in rural farmland in China: Many farmingcomunities ravished by HIV and AIDS through the infection of several persons at a time for the sake of obtaining plasma from blood. Several persons at a time would have their blood extracted and co-mingled into a common tub of blood for extraction of plasma before being reinjected with the co-mingled blood.

Truckers, prostitutes and blood transfusions...

Of course now it is spread by all sorts of less than wise sexual behavior, behavior related to drug use and of course when those folks give blood and some inocent gets a good dose through transfusion.

I guess I should defined what I would refer to as wise but I would place these truckers and prostitutes in the unwise sexual behavior catagory and I clearly mentioned transfusions as well. So AXL72, you sounded pretty argumentative but I don't see where you offered anything other than agreement. Except, of course, you could argue that the truckers and prostitutes are actually wise. I, however, would counter by argueing that the results of their actions are, in fact, proof that their actions were not wise.

Come on, blame homosexuals solely for the transmision of HIV and AIDS?

I think that I have clearly shown here that I didn't say anything of the kind. I'll be more than happy to entertain your disagreement with anything I say but I have no response for your disagreement with things that I did NOT say other than to point out that I didn't say it.. Oh, wait...you were asking a question. In that case I'll answer it. No.

The point is well taken. But there are huge blame undertones, like "that one gay man spoiled sex as we kow it for the rest of us...boo hoo". Whether HIV AIDS made it here back in the 80's or in the 2100's, it is bad for all of us, and no one group should carry the burden of blame, which is expressed in the undertones.

Maybe these "blame undertones" are just something you wanted to see in what I wrote? I really liked this

"that one gay man spoiled sex as we kow it for the rest of us...boo hoo".

Nice touch but completely unrelated to anything that I ever said. Since YOU said it though, I'll respond by pointing out, as a matter of fact, that AIDS has not spoiled sex for me.

Now then, I mentioned drug use which is completely non-sex related and transfusions which are also non-sex related. Some one added to that mothers transmit the disease to unborn children. That was stated as 10% or something?

Can anyone break down the other 90% of transmissions?

If I have this right, from the history offered in this thread, in the beginning someone got the disease through unintentional fluid transfer when killing a monkey? And then it spread across the world how?

I stated

AIDS like many other diseases is largely a behavior problem.

Maybe I missed it but I didn't see where anyone offered anything to show that the spread of AIDS is not "largely" related to behavior. Would anyone care to describe the relationship between behavior and the spread of AIDS? Would some one care to identify the highest risk groups? Maybe it would be quicker to identify the lowest risk groups?

 

[sandjeep]

Mike said,

Lets see if we can clear this up a little for those having trouble with reading for content in context.

Well written Sir! Spot on!