Creation vs. Evolution

[MikeFerrara]

Yes, true. And I can't wait for that day Exciting to think, it will probably be in my life time!

I hope I was clear enough and I hope you really understand the significance of your statement.

If nothing else has convinced you that what you want effects other people, your own statement here should. To actively interfere with a parents wishes in the raising of their children (that's what we're talking about here) is a violation of such magnitude that it's completely off the scale.

Society may be worse off than I think but I don't think people will stand for that. Raise your own children in any way you see fit but you should leave other peoples children alone.

 

[Sas]

Raise your own children in any way you see fit but you should leave other peoples children alone.

I agree totally! So stay away from my children and who they can marry. How exactly is allowing gay marriage going to interfere with the way you raise your children Mike? I want my children to grow up in a world where they can marry who they want so you seeking to have marriage only between a man and a woman is interfering with MY right to raise my children how I want.

Why do you care about the gay agenda? (which by the way, you have never defined so I have NO IDEA what you mean by it) What do you care if people tell children it is ok for people who love one another to get married? How is that harmful??? I think it is harmful to tell children they can't be with who they want.

Also what is HBO and MTV? I know they are tv shows from google but why would I be fearful of my kids watching it? I have not had a tv now or in the past so do not know what you are talking about and how that would be an argument against what I was saying. As far as I remember MTV was a music video show...

But, if that level of decadence is what our future holds, then so be it.

Bring it on! I really fail to see how homosexual marriage is decadent though, but if it is well I guess I am a supporter of 'decadence' then You say it like it is a bad thing Mike And luckily my kind are making a lot of headway now. My country has already stopped overruling states' introducing gay civil unions. And the notion that creationism could be introduced into a science class is looked upon with hilarity and disbelief by the majority of the population. Oh yea, and abortion is allowed too and defacto couples have the same rights as married couples. Society is getting better and better in my opinion!

 

[shoredivr]

Bring it on! I really fail to see how homosexual marriage is decadent though, but if it is well I guess I am a supporter of 'decadence' then You say it like it is a bad thing Mike And luckily my kind are making a lot of headway now. My country has already stopped overruling states' introducing gay civil unions. And the notion that creationism could be introduced into a science class is looked upon with hilarity and disbelief by the majority of the population. Oh yea, and abortion is allowed too and defacto couples have the same rights as married couples. Society is getting better and better in my opinion!

Mine went one better: gay marriage is legal here in Canada.

Sky still above us, world still turning on its axis.

 

[redacted]

I hope I was clear enough and I hope you really understand the significance of your statement.

If nothing else has convinced you that what you want effects other people, your own statement here should. To actively interfere with a parents wishes in the raising of their children (that's what we're talking about here) is a violation of such magnitude that it's completely off the scale.

Society may be worse off than I think but I don't think people will stand for that. Raise your own children in any way you see fit but you should leave other peoples children alone.

I really think you are wrong here about what the public wants. 40 years ago, homosexuality was well hidden. Those who were out were subject to ridicule. Now we realize that some estimate 10% of the population is gay. That means that lots of heterosexual people have homosexual children, grandchildren, other relations, and friends. So these folks are having to make decisions on whether to reject these homosexuals or whether to support them. Even with many churches opposing support, relationships and friendships appear to be stronger than the effects of these churches in many cases. 40 years ago, I would have been with you (although not for religious reasons). Today I support my friends as they seek to end the discrimination in the USA.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I agree totally! So stay away from my children and who they can marry.

In principle, I agree.

How exactly is allowing gay marriage going to interfere with the way you raise your children Mike?

It doesn't. However, the activity of the lobby in schools and proposed legislation that would effect how things are done in schools can.

Why do you care about the gay agenda?

Until fairly recently, I didn't. Generally, I don't care what other people do regardless of what my religious views are. I am the quintessential "leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" type.

Its actually the specific actions of the "gay lobby" that first drew my attention and opposition. Prior to that I never gave the whole thing a second thought and probably never would have.

(which by the way, you have never defined so I have NO IDEA what you mean by it)

When I refer to the "gay agenda" I'm refering to the actions and planned actions of the various gay organizations.

What do you care if people tell children it is ok for people who love one another to get married?

Except in the case of one man and one woman, I believe it's wrong so I don't want it told to my children.

How is that harmful???

Because not only is homosexuality a sin but to place a stumbling block in front of another (especially a child) is also a sin...in my view, of course.

I think it is harmful to tell children they can't be with who they want.

ok. You see the solution here don't you? Let's make it between just you and I for starters. You do what you want in your corner and I'll do what I want in my corner.

That seems simple enough but that's not what's been happening. I think they're going to keep pushing, marching, legislating and calling people "homophobe" until they themselves are convinced that there way of doing things really isn't any different.

The fact is that they are different but the problem isn't that their difference bothers us "homophobes". On the contrary, the real problem seems to be that their difference bothers them.

IMO, they need to get over that but most people want to fit in. When you're different, you just aren't going to fit in everyplace all the time and that isn't all bad.

Those of us who are a bit off the beaten path (for whatever reason) do better if we just get used to going our own way. Then we really can just live and let live.

 

[Sas]

In
When I refer to the "gay agenda" I'm refering to the actions and planned actions of the various gay organizations.

Such as???

I personally only see the gay movement as people demanding equal rights with heterosexuals. Not sure what your big concern is with that, given that you have defined yourself as a 'live and let live' kind of guy.

Btw, you are free to tell your children gay marriage is wrong, I never said otherwise. Legislating for or against gay marriage won't affect that or how people raise their kids. For example, if I was living in the US, I would be telling my children that every person who argues against gay marriage is wrong and bigoted, and the current legislation prohibiting it, is appalling. You are free to tell your children the opposite, of course.

But yea, I shouldn't worry too much. Some time soon, your views on homosexual marriage will be considered archaic and wrong so I just have to sit tight for a while. As frustrating as that may be, I know in the end the law will change. Historical precedence has shown this with the suffrage movement, the anti-slavery movement and so on. I don't believe it will be any different for homosexuals

 

[MikeFerrara]

I really think you are wrong here about what the public wants. 40 years ago, homosexuality was well hidden. Those who were out were subject to ridicule. Now we realize that some estimate 10% of the population is gay. That means that lots of heterosexual people have homosexual children, grandchildren, other relations, and friends. So these folks are having to make decisions on whether to reject these homosexuals or whether to support them. Even with many churches opposing support, relationships and friendships appear to be stronger than the effects of these churches in many cases. 40 years ago, I would have been with you (although not for religious reasons). Today I support my friends as they seek to end the discrimination in the USA.

From what I read, I think the 10% is an overstatement...I think it's more like 2% or 3%.

Either way, most of us have friends, associates and/or family members who are gay so I completely agree that how we treat eachother is very important.

I certainly don't think that ridicule, rejection or mistreatment is called for or, in any way, constructive. The one caveat being that it goes both ways. If I have to be dishonest with a friend in order for them to feel accepted or to get them to accept me, then we aren't really friends.

As I tried to say in my last post, we are different. We can make a big issue of that difference or put it in perspective and just ignore it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Such as???
I personally only see the gay movement as people demanding equal rights with heterosexuals. Not sure what your big concern is with that, given that you have defined yourself as a 'live and let live' kind of guy.

I think we've been over and over that and I have to get to work so I'm going to let that go for now.

But yea, I shouldn't worry too much. Some time soon, your views on homosexual marriage will be considered archaic and wrong so I just have to sit tight for a while. As frustrating as that may be,

It's not the least bit frustrating. I am more "old fashioned" on more topics and in more ways than you could ever come close to comprehending. A key difference between us is that I'm not concerned with how "archaic or wrong" people think I am.

As I said before, I am and always have been, content to go my own way.

I know in the end the law will change. Historical precedence has shown this with the suffrage movement, the anti-slavery movement and so on. I don't believe it will be any different for homosexuals

Whatever happens, happens and I hope it works out for you but I don't see how this compares to slavery or suffrage.

 

[MikeFerrara]

But yea, I shouldn't worry too much. Some time soon, your views on homosexual marriage will be considered archaic and wrong so I just have to sit tight for a while. As frustrating as that may be, I know in the end the law will change.

Just wondering, what if it doesn't change? How will you take it if you sit tight untill you back side becomes part of the chair and things are still the same or even worse?

 

[MikeFerrara]

For example, if I was living in the US, I would be telling my children that every person who argues against gay marriage is wrong and bigoted, and the current legislation prohibiting it, is appalling. You are free to tell your children the opposite, of course.

Would you also explain to them that there are belief and value systems different from yours and why?

Surely, you must realize that many of us (we the hated Christian right wing conservatives) have friends from all walks of life who don't consider us bigots.

It's just my opinion but I think that if you really taught your children that, you would be setting them up for failure.