Creation vs. Evolution

[nereas]

...FWIW, my pastor has never to my knowledge preached a sermon on the sin of homosexuality, although he has touched on it occasionally like all sins that we need to turn from- no more, no less. We have had a pastor visit who is involved in a ministry to help homosexuals who want to leave the lifestyle- a ministry he founded after he, himself, repented of his former life. It is a ministry based in love & forgiveness- not in hellfire & damnation as you seem to think all Christians preach.

Conversely, my pastor has taught on several occasions on the sin of living together & called for couples to stop living together & honor God's Word by getting married. His emphasis is always on the responsibility that the man has to respect, love & cherish the woman by honoring her & God with a covenant relationship.

...

I find it amusing how some faiths cherry-pick which rules in the Bible to enforce, and which others to tolerate.

I would think that it would be logical to enforce all of them equally, or else none of them at all. Anything else would be inconsistent.

Take for example Jesus' rule to love your enemies. That, I believe, is the hardest one of them all, and it is ignored by most everyone.

If you decide to believe the things written in the Bible, then I think you should learn Greek and Hebrew so that you can properly interpret the things written in it. Otherwise, you are stuck with other people's translations from Hebrew and Greek, all of which, based on what I have seen and read, are pretty bad.

Short of that, any argument about what the Bible says is mostly an amateurish cafeteria food fight.

Churches (an English word, which comes from a German word, which comes from the Greek word for "of the Lord") on the other hand are businesses with leadership, and anything the leader says goes. You have to follow their rules simply as a matter of convention. Still, I am amazed by the cherry-picking that readily goes on.

 

[Divin' Dave]

Hmmm...Has anyone reading the 470 pages of this thread changed their opinion on anything as a result of reading these comments?

 

[nereas]

I would like to see a constitutional amendment settle the issue of abortion one way or the other, so that this political hot potato can be put to rest once and for all. My personal view is that whatever the majority of the Body Politic decides is fine with me, either way. Then it simply becomes a matter of law, with the will of the people having spoken.

My views on gay/lesbian marrage, legalized polygamy, and possession of handguns and long guns by civilians (non-police and non-military) are the same as the above, as well. Just get it over with.

 

[Hank49]

Hmmm...Has anyone reading the 470 pages of this thread changed their opinion on anything as a result of reading these comments?

Yes...

 

[nereas]

Hmmm...Has anyone reading the 470 pages of this thread changed their opinion on anything as a result of reading these comments?

Anyone crusading on Scubaboard is wasting a lot of time. The DIRs have already proved that. They have crusaded a lot, and failed.

It makes more sense to actually go diving rather than crusade.

 

[Rainer]

I would like to see a constitutional amendment settle the issue of abortion one way or the other, so that this political hot potato can be put to rest once and for all. My personal view is that whatever the majority of the Body Politic decides is fine with me, either way. Then it simply becomes a matter of law, with the will of the people having spoken.

My views on gay/lesbian marrage, legalized polygamy, and possession of handguns and long guns by civilians (non-police and non-military) are the same as the above, as well. Just get it over with.

How would that settle anything? At least in the US, we can change the Constitution whenever we feel. Laws can be just as easily repealed as first written (though hardly done...).

 

[MikeFerrara]

So allow recreational drugs. *shrugs* Such an obvious solution.

I tend to agree with you. As far as I'm concerned, it shouldn't be any of the governments business what I eat, drink smoke or shoot or whether or not I wear a seatbelt or...

Well there is no legal question really in my country, it has been decided, the anti-abortion side lost.

I would consider myself anti-abortion but, aside from not approving of every use of my tax dollars go, I haven't lost anything.

I personally think abortions are a poor solution to the problem of unwanted pregnancy but one that I believe people should have the right to decide on themselves.

I think that everybody should have the right to decide EVERYTHING for themselves except when their decision becomes a significant burden on someone else. Earlier, I tried to make the point that a major purpose of law was protection.

Most of us have legal protection from murder, asault, battery, theft and a host of other things.

Having some Christians, such as yourself (mentioned earlier in this thread), argue against providing contraception to teenagers certainly doesn't help the abortion rate go down.

First of all, teenagers don't make up the majority of those having abortions according to the published numbers that I've seen.

Second, I challenge you to produce so much as a single person who has obtained a legal, by choice, abortion, in the US who doesn't know anything about the birth control options are available.

Third, where is the word "provide" coming from? Who is expected to do the providing here and why? Do I have to rent them a room too? Can they get their pants off without help?

The push for abstinence only education in the US (thankfully not the same where I am from) also contributes to the abortion rate so people who argue against it such as yourself are indirectly increasing the abortion rate.

I'm inclined to ask for data.

Teenagers will have sex, regardless of whether they have abstinence only education or are denied birth control, and as such many will have unwanted pregnancies and terminations. I would think if you are so anti-abortion you would be arguing for better sex ed and the provision of contraception to teenagers. I am interested to know why you argue the opposite then?

Again, teen agers aren't the ones having most abortions in the US so, until I see data, I'm inclined to think that sex education dossn't have anything to do with it.

But, when have I argued against teaching the facts in sex education courses?

How can they be denied birth control?

What is your solution to people having unwanted children Mike if you don't agree with abortion? And I want a realistic answer, not 'abstinence' as I hardly find that realistic.

ok, I've thought about this quite a while now and the only solution I have is to love your children.

How is an abortion in a back street alley better for an unborn fetus?

It works out the same either way for the fetus.

Basically, if you make abortion illegal, the fetus dies, and so does the mother far more frequently than when abortion is legal and thus subject to quality control.

If I make abortion illegal the woman dies? Does the woman (is it really right to refer to her as a mother?) share any of the responsibility?

 

[sheck33]

Of course they are, seeing as nearly half of them are creationists. It is a pity seven people are allowed to have that much say over the education of an entire state.

The article talks about a Dr. McLeroy, the chairman of the board. He believes in Young Earth creationism and rejects evolution claiming that his rejection has nothing to do with his religious beliefs. It got me thinking, can anybody provide the name of someone who disagrees with evolution who is not religious? I couldn't off the top of my head... I think it would be very telling if their numbers are small.

To be honest, I am quietly confident that these changes will not be made as it would make the US educational system the laughing stock of the Western world. I know most of the West cannot believe that the US educational system still has people challenging the teaching of evolution in school!!!

I think Dawkins summed up my feelings best on people disagreeing with evolution "It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."I really doubt any doubter of evolution here has actually read much to do with the theory given what people have been posting in creationism's defense. :11:

And to think that these clowns suggest replacing evolution with some pseudo scientific babble that actually explains exactly nothing. That makes me wonder why they don't also push to teach that the earth is the center of the universe

 

[sheck33]

Hmmm...Has anyone reading the 470 pages of this thread changed their opinion on anything as a result of reading these comments?

No, except maybe a better understanding of the power of religious brainwashing.
Scary indeed.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I find it amusing how some faiths cherry-pick which rules in the Bible to enforce, and which others to tolerate.

I would think that it would be logical to enforce all of them equally, or else none of them at all. Anything else would be inconsistent.

I guess things are different in some parts of the world but I've never been to a church that has the authority to enforce anything. Advise, offer guidence, encourage...maybe but what can they enforce?

Take for example Jesus' rule to love your enemies. That, I believe, is the hardest one of them all, and it is ignored by most everyone.

I disagree that it's ignored by most but it certainly is very difficult. Jesus also commanded that we love the Lord with all our heart and soul and that isn't easy either...I give up, tell me which one is easy.

If you decide to believe the things written in the Bible, then I think you should learn Greek and Hebrew so that you can properly interpret the things written in it. Otherwise, you are stuck with other people's translations from Hebrew and Greek, all of which, based on what I have seen and read, are pretty bad.

I don't know too many people that actually learn Greek and Hebrew but doing word studies for the purpose of better understanding is pretty common.

Churches (an English word, which comes from a German word, which comes from the Greek word for "of the Lord") on the other hand are businesses with leadership, and anything the leader says goes. You have to follow their rules simply as a matter of convention. Still, I am amazed by the cherry-picking that readily goes on.

Not all of us belong to "a church". I don't. However, most of those I have experience with have a doctrinal statement, sometimes a constitution, a group of elders and the voting body of members. The paster essentially reports to the elders and the voting body and can be replaced. Becoming a voting member often involves convincing the elders that your beliefs are consistent with the doctrinal statement and passing a vote by the voting body. To be sure church politics can get the better of some folks.

In my experience, most of the cherry picking isn't done on purpose but rather as a result of the curch or individuals understanding of scripture.

But, I said most. The remainder seems primarily due to the desire for church growth. the eaiest way to grow a church is to tell people what they want to hear.