Creation vs. Evolution

[Green_Manelishi]

and there's a lot to be said for that

And as a lawyer you have perfected ignoring, or surpressing, evidence that does not support your case.

 

[H2Andy]

And as a lawyer you have perfected ignoring, or surpressing, evidence that does not support your case.

yeah, cause real life is just like t.v. and the movies

(but it's just easier to think in cliches)

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Ignorance is curable, its stupid that's forever.

I hope you are cured before death, which will overtake you before forever.

 

[AXL72]

Thalas, I luved that flow diagram. Awesome!!!

 

[gangrel441]

I hope you are cured before death, which will overtake you before forever.

See? Now there he goes again....believe in my God and every word his followers wrote 2000+ years ago, or he will throw you into the pit of hell when you die.

As I said before, even if that is true, I don't want anything to do with that God or his followers anyways. Sounds to me like hell might be where I'll be happy.

You still haven't told us why we should believe in your God instead of the Great Spirit, Allah, Amateratsu, Zeus, Thor, The Goddess......not as easy to do when you aren't holding a sword in one hand, is it?

 

[Thalassamania]

There is no need; just continue to "perfect" your theory when you have no evidence to support the current fantasy.

Gee ... is that it? And I just thought the anti-evolutionists were intellectually lazy.

 

[stepup]

I am a very strong christian and I do believe in evolution. I mean it has been proven to an extent. Do I believe that a bird ca turn into a diosaur no. Do I believe that a birds beak can start taking on a little different shape because he ird needs it to open nuts rather than catch bugs sure. I believe that god knows that people and animals a like need to evolve to keep up with the earth. I have read many places and I totally agree with this statement. " I would rather believe ad find out its not true than not to believe and burn in hell for eternity", I hear people say If a god will do that then I want nothing to do with him. Thats fine and you will die a poor sinners death and be in a place for eternity that your mind cannot fathom. You will burn forever. Its not like you just have to endure it for awhile. It's eternity something our minds cannot fathom. Everything in this life had a beginning and a end. But hell has a beginning but very much it has no end what so ever. I know that there is a god. I mat not be able to see him physically or hear him physically but I do not kow how to explain the may miracles that are performed everyday. I do not know how to explain the wonders of the human body. Look at how amazing the human body is and tell me that there was not a higher power. I didn't have very much faith until he lord go a hold of me ad started dealing with me. Once he did though I knew that something was going on and I knew I had to do something or I was going to die that same poor sinners death that I mentioned earlier. Now I do know that I will have eternal life. I also know that there is a god through faith, miracles, and the wonderful things he has done for me through out my life. But the way I look at it is I know where I am going in the end no matter what and that is what little bit of comfort I can get out of dying rather than thinking that I am going to just turn into dst in the end.

 

[Warthaug]

None of what you mention is something from nothing. It's something from something. Start with NOTHING.

So now you want us to replicate the big bang? And what exactly would that have to do with evolution?

Conveniently you prattle on about how life originated from lifelessness not being relevant. Sure. Of course not. But it does present a significant obstacle. One that so far your "scientists" cannot overcome.

And yet we've been able to set a theoretical and experimental groundwork that obeys all laws of physics and chemistry, we've demonstrated that those processes can, and do, occur without intervention, and as a result we've got a naturalistic model which can account for where life came from. We may never be able to prove to a 100% degree of certainty it is how life came about, but we know it is plausible and that it is statistically probable.

In contrast, you're asking us to believe in a system which is statistically improbable - spontaneous generation of complex organisms is a mathematical impossibility. In addition, there is no evidence in nature to suggest creationism ever occurred - be it astronomical observations which put the universe being born in a hot & massive inflation 12-15BY ago, the lack of genetic/biochemical evidence for separate creation of different forms (kinds, in creation-speak) of life, dating of the earth/moon/sun to circa 4.5BY, etc. The entirety of the universe screams against the creationist model, and yet you continue to ignore that.

You claim they are "on their way"; do let us know when they are even close to arrival at the hoped for destination.

Well, the first synthetic virus has already been made. Some are even being used as research tools. Venter is trying to make synthetic bacteria - you'll have to ask him when he expects to be done. Last I heard he was shooting for the end of the decade.

"Speciation" is not the same as dinosaurs eventually became birds.

It is the exact same process. It's just a matter of time. The same processes that result in small changes in a human generation will, over a longer time period, lead to much larger changes. Carry that out for long enough and you get the kinds of changes you're asking about.

We do see the kinds of changes you're asking about, in bacteria and viruses, all the time. Within a single HIV patient we will see gene divergence of HIV to ~10%; that's about the same difference as a human vs. dog (at gene level). Within the bacterial word we see similar levels of change, occurring over tens of thousands of generations (i.e. years), just as evolutionary theory predicts.

Now let me preclude your next statement, one which will almost certainly be "but they're still viruses/bacteria". It's the easy cop-out for creationists, but at the end of the day you're just saying that because you cannot see, with your eyes, these changes occurring, that they don't count.

The real irony is that ff we (scientists) could observe those kinds of changes in "higher" organisms, either in a lab, or observe them happening in the environment, it would be a direct disproof of evolution, as evolutionary theory predicts those kinds of changes take a lot of generations - far more then we could could observe in one human generation.

So basically you're asking us scientists to make an observation which would disprove evolution, in order to "prove" evolution. Maybe you should read up on the theory, and understand what it says, before you start making demands on scientists to "prove it".

You believe that it will lead to it, given enough time, but you've not seen it happen. The fossil "record" is hardly proof of it happening.

But evolution, including that conclusion, is not based solely on the fossil record. Add to that radiodating, mtDNA, comparative physiology, biochemical and genetic comparisons, and put it all together, you end up with only one plausible explanation that explains the patterns seen among all of that data - evolution.

Keep grasping at straws and calling it science; it's great entertainment.

As is your continuing ignorance of what is a rather simple scientific theory.

Bryan

 

[Warthaug]

You still haven't told us why we should believe in your God instead of the Great Spirit, Allah, Amateratsu, Zeus, Thor, The Goddess......not as easy to do when you aren't holding a sword in one hand, is it?

I'm waging my bets on the invisible purple unicorn, although the FSM has his own appeal as well

Bryan

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm waging my bets on the invisible purple unicorn, although the FSM has his own appeal as well

Bryan

FSM! RAmen!