Creation vs. Evolution

[dlndavid]

wrong JT, wrong, churches don't teach that.

 

[SeaYoda]

...On a side note, anyone know if something can become a fossil in 7,000 years outside of an all powerful, all knowing entity making it so?

How about a mummy? Several of those around that are naturally formed. Do they count as a fossil or do they need to be in rock?

 

[SeaYoda]

That the flood causing some species to become extinct doesn't make sense if you look at the literal interpretation of the Bible which says Noah loaded up with all the critters on the earth.

It's kind of a peeve I have that it's all good to take some of the Bible at the written word then disregard other parts. Either you believe the whole thing as written or it's open to interpretation.

R

I take all the literal parts of the Bible as literal, but there are other types of writing in the book. There is poetry, teaching in parables, and symbolic language - none of which are literal.

As to what went on the ark, not 2 of all animals were taken aboard. Look at the description and you will see the word kind. This is why some believe things went extinct at the time of the flood.

Gen 7:13-14
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
KJV

The word kind was used in describing the creation - this is why I believe in micro-evolution and not macro-evolution. Genetic diversity and the laws that govern natural selection were built in by an all knowing creator.

Gen 1:11-12
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:21-22
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:24-25
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
KJV

 

[Diver Dennis]

The dinos are special in the fact that from the point of science they lived long before the <10,000 year true age of the Earth. The dating of rocks dictates that either they were put there by God to make a complete functioning universe or the dating is false or the dating is "apparent age" with new fossils in old looking rocks. If Behemoth and Leviathan were dinos, they were alive at the time of man - something unthinkable to many scientists. I believe many things went extinct and became fossils in the flood. I also believe that the flood would alter the "steady state" we base a lot of our scientific "facts" on.

I'm not following what you mean by "steady state".

 

[Diver Dennis]

How about a mummy? Several of those around that are naturally formed. Do they count as a fossil or do they need to be in rock?

The ones that have been found in ice or peat bogs have been carbon dated. They are not fossils.

 

[SeaYoda]

I'm not following what you mean by "steady state".

Most of our "live" observations are in recent times. Things have changed during this time but we are in a relatively "steady state". The changes described in the account of the flood are huge. There are lots of theories of how the whole world could be covered with water, but the constant thing I see in them is catotrophic change in the physical world. Can we apply what we know to such an event? I doubt it. Does that make it a little clearer?

 

[Diver Dennis]

Now I see your point. Was there an ice age described in the bible?

 

[SeaYoda]

The ones that have been found in ice or peat bogs have been carbon dated. They are not fossils.

We would get into the whole area of how accurate are the dating methods and how a change in steady state (even the change from the different atmospheric CO2 levels that would occur according to the evolutionary process) would change the carbon dating of things if a fossil is to be dated "old" to be called a fossil. I thought he meant the process that developes a preserved specimen over time.

 

[SeaYoda]

Now I see your point. Was there an ice age described in the bible?

I don't recall a direct reference to the ice age, but some think it too was part of the catostrophic change at the time of the flood. One theory has the poles tilting and causing differing things including freezing like the ice age. This is just a theory and no scripture to back it up.

The Bible is not a science book and it's main concern is the relationship between God and man. God described all of creation in very few words but spends much more on our relationship with eachother and Him. I get really frustrated that I don't have all the information sometimes, but think of how much we don't know with our state of scientific knowledge. It would be hard for my little brain to be on the level of a being that was powerful enough to create a universe .

 

[Diver Dennis]

I must say Yoda that I might not agree with the creation theory but it is important to listen to all sides of an argument. As I posted before, I don't think creationism and evolutionism need be mutually exclusive. Thanks for the information.