Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

In drawings of children's bibles of Adam and Eve, I see them drawn with belly buttons. Why?

Where else do you think all the lint on the earth came from?!

 

[Walter]

In drawings in children's bibles of Adam and Eve, I see them drawn with belly buttons. Why?

Lack of imagination.

 

[Thalassamania]

Intelligent Design "experts" are almost all philosophers, mathematicians, or theologians at best and politicians or media pundits at worst. They just don't seem to get that scientific research involves lab experiments, or field studies, or even computer simulations.

To quote Richard Feynman (Nobel Prize in Physics 1965), "Experiment is the sole judge of scientific 'truth.'" This is the reason why Intelligent Design Creationists have produced no scientific research -- they think evolution can be disproved by their theorizing. Biology is so damn complicated and diverse that almost any sweeping a priori statement that 'biology, in principle, could never do x' is immediately suspect.

 

[adurso]

Speaking of gravitional theory, what happened when Joshua ben Nun stopped the earth's rotation?

 

[MikeFerrara]

Clearly I come down four-square on the Darwinian side, as far as I'm concerned all the other stuff is myth, sometime pretty myth sometimes a meaningful allegory, but myth just the same.

It's natural to want to trust what you can see, feel and even control. Maybe it's not good but it is natural.

What gets me is how folks think that their myth is any more important than another’s myth? Is it not just as reasonable to believe that the world exists on the back of giant turtle as it is to believe the Judeo/Christian bible version? Should we be teaching all these myths in the chemistry lab? How about alchemy and astrology?

Regardless of whether my beliefes are right or some one elses or no ones, there is only one that is truth. Even though it isn't correct these days to insinuate that some one is wrong...some one or every one IS wrong.

I certainly can't answer your question with anything that I can produce for you to see feel, touch or control. However, Romans 10:17 says "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 11:7 says "What then? Isreal has not obtained what it seeks: but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded." Isaiah 29:10,13 says "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." Psalm 69:22,23 says "Let their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a recompense to them. Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, And bow down their back always." John 6:44 says...Jesus speaking here "No one can come to Me unless the Father who has sent Me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day."

I realize I skipped around some but by all means read it yourself if you're interested.

If nothing else, it seems that the questions and arguements are the same now as they were then. Since then man has come up with the big bang, evolution, string theory and whatever else and what exactly has changed and what can we do with it? Hint...it won't even get you a cup of coffee. LOL so much for the smarts of people.

 

[TheRedHead]

Where else do you think all the lint on the earth came from?!

My socks. One of each pair disappears and my belief is that they turn to belly button lint...

 

[Hank49]

Yes but do we choose to have faith in man or faith in God? If we place our faith in man then I pray that God help us! ooops, I guess I pick God. LOL

We have to place faith in ourselves....or man...because we are in charge of our destiny. Be it through belief in God or belief that we can make a change in our world ourselves. One day we'll graduate to the next level and maybe realize that our version of God is some young, super intelligent life form running a lab experiment in a science class. One day to him/her/it, is 2 million years to us.

 

[MikeFerrara]

My socks. One of each pair disappears and my belief is that they turn to belly button lint...

yes! I have been contending with the sock monster as far back as I can remember. As a boy I remember my father's comments. As a father myself I thought the kids must be behind it. Now the kids are gone and there's no one here but my wife and I and both of our socks disappear!

If science really wanted to do something useful for humanity, they would find all the friggin socks!

 

[Warthaug]

Listen, I understand evolution!!

Given you don't know the definition of adaptation vs evolution, I doubt it.

I am not stupid.

And where did I say that?

I use to strongly believe in Evolution., but after researching it and studying both sides, which not many people do, I came to my own opinion. Just because I am going to study marine biology does not mean I have to believe in Evolution.

No, you don't. But you're going to have to understand it if you're planning on understanding the things you've been taught. I've had creationists in classes I've taught before; and they can easily be divided into two groups. There were those who understood evolution (even if they didn't believe in it), and they could do fine in the courses. And then there were those who not only rejected evolution, but chose to avoid learning about it. Each and every one of them struggled with the material for the very simple reason that evolution underlies pretty much every other biological therom - be it genetics, biochemistry, cell biology, physiology or ecology.

As for your choice to believe in creationism, I have a question. It was this question which bothered me for years, and it was this question which eventually lead me to reject literal interpretations of the bible - how do you literally interpret the bible when it has two contradictory versions of genesis? Genesis I being the 6-day creation, genesis II being the Adam & Eve story. Different time scales (6-days vs indeterminate, but long time), different order of creation (notably when man vs animals were created), different story of how they came about...

Have you ever looked at Creation from a non-biased view. (I doubt it!)

Yes. I was raised as a fundamentalist Christian, and was faced with the propaganda my whole childhood. It wasn't until I entered university that I came to understand that evolution could explain the world around me, and not literal interpretations of genesis. It's also where I came to realize that I had been lied to for my whole life - there was no contradiction between my faith and evolution - I could believe in one without rejecting the other.

In terms of dealing with the conflict between evolution and genesis, that was easy. Throughout the bible it "corrects" itself - the gospels of Jesus, for example, completely re-write the rules outlined in the old testament. I see genesis in a similar light - it was a good way of explaining to shepherds how the universe came to be, but now that we've come along (just like the people of Jesus’ time had advanced from those in Moses’ days) its time for a new reality - one closer to the truth.

If you did, you would not put down Creation.

And where exactly did I do that? I've spent this whole thread pointing out that belief in evolution is not atheism, and is not incompatible with religious belief. You've falsely assume that I'm an atheist, that I don't believe in god, and that I assume everyone who does is an idiot. Just because I don't wave my faith around like a flag doesn't mean I dont have one. Biblical literalism (i.e. what creationists beliefs is based on) is simply wrong. There are too any examples in history where biblical literalisms was shown to be wrong - heliocentricity being the most obvious (but hardly only) example.

"Science" has facts, but it is everyone’s different views about the facts that makes "Science"..."Science"

Three things make science, and there is no debate about that:

1) A theory must be based on pre-existing empirical data.
2) A theory must generate testable hypothesi.
3) If a theory is false, you must be able to demonstrate so.

Problem with trying to put creationism into science class is that it fails all three criteria to be a scientific theory.

Bryan

 

[grazie42]

Originally Posted by MikeFerrara
First of all, even the scientists tell us that life hasn't always been around so that's not even a a question. Is it?

Which is more far fetched, that God did it or that it did itself?

My question was how can you believe that nothing can come from nothing while still believing in gods existence? He either had to come from something or nothing...

I guess I find the idea of a God who created "everything" rather more unlikely than the idea that what we see around us is the result of a few fundamental "principles" at work...

Of course you are welcome to your own opinion but, for the moment at least, I don´t share it...
If there truly is a divine being, I´d hope (s)he´d have more mercy for a reflective doubter than a blind follower, if he doesen´t then I´d rather do without salvation because I don´t like the idea of eternity with that kind of company...

The greatest justice to my mind would be, if we get the afterlife we believe in...*trying to believe in Valhalla....mmm....beer...*