Creation vs. Evolution

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Midnight Star:
There are even some pathogens that can cross the species boundary; viruses in particular. As to whether this is do to the fact the RNA recombines with the DNA defining the basis of a specific cell by function (brain, or nasal for example), instead of "latching" to an exact common gene across the board, it would be difficult to say: is a nose is a nose is a nose, and all things having a nose have the same "basic" nose gene from a single common ancestor (a mutation)? or is it something else.

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Mike.


Difficult question. Viruses and their host-specificity are much easier to address then bacterial specificity, so thanx for picking the easiest example ;)

In order to productively infect a cell a virus must be able to do a few things. If any of these steps fail, the virus cannot successfully infect the cell:

1) Bind to the cell
2) Induce its internalization
3) Escape from the internalization step
4) Replicate
5) Assemble itself
6) Escape the cell

As it turns out, the way cells work isn't all that different between most ofrms of life - the way we humans replicate our DNA, make RNA, and internalize (endocytose) stuff is pretty much the same as the way all other animals do it (yes, even including sponges, anemones, and jellyfish), and for that matter, is pretty much the same as the way things like molds do it.

Because of this similarity, the factors which limit the animals a virus can infect tend to be quite specific to the virus.

For example, influenza virus can infect birds, humans and pigs. The reason for this cross-reactivity is that all three of these organisms express a protein on the surface of their cells which the virus can bind to (called ICAM-1 in humans). The virus cannot infect other organisms because they either express a form of ICAM-1 that influenza cannot bind, or don't express ICAM-1 at all.

Another example is HIV. HIV can actually enter the cells of a huge range of animals. But HIV itself can only replicate in humans, chimps, and a few other types of monkeys. This is because these species express a gene the virus needs for its replication. Other animals simply don't have this gene, so even though HIV can get into their cells, it cannot replicate itself.

And there are viruses which infect pretty much anything they touch. Adenoviruses are a good example of this. Although they are commonly thought of as a human virus, you put them on pretty much any cell (including insect cells, of all things) and they'll infect.

Bryan
 
Soggy:
Noah and the ark. How is it possible? As I understand it, God gave a command, and Noah followed without intervention from God. He, as a mortal (a 700 year old mortal!?), managed to build a wooden ark of impossible size, get every single species on board, and keep them alive with only 7 days notice.

Please tell me how we can reconcile the impossibility of this situation with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

Noah was 500 years old when he started having children and 600 years old when the flood started. We don't know how much time he spent building the ark. I have heard 120 years but I haven't found any Biblical support of that. I doubt it would have been short notice because Gods pattern (if we can call it that) is to give notice and give people a chance to repent...as He did in Jonahs case.

When God told Noah to go into the ark with the animals God said that after 7 more days He would cause it to rain. Nowhere does it suggest that Noah only had 7 days to build the ark.

The Bible doesn't tell us how he gathered the animals but I doubt he had to take butterfly nets and go afield to hunt and capture them. The Bible doesn't say but my guess is that God would have sent the animals to Noah.
 
For example, influenza virus can infect birds, humans and pigs. The reason for this cross-reactivity is that all three of these organisms express a protein on the surface of their cells which the virus can bind to (called ICAM-1 in humans). The virus cannot infect other organisms because they either express a form of ICAM-1 that influenza cannot bind, or don't express ICAM-1 at all.
You know what's interesting on one side of the coin, is that, if all species share a single common ancestor, then all viruses should effect all species the same (since, in a remote way, they'd all carry their predacessors genes - which would depend on the gene being "active" in the organisms current genetic structure), then on the other side, during the "refinements" of the mutations (over the generations) such specific cells mutated, inhibiting the commonality of the surface receptors to a "common" viral RNA.

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Mike.
 
And there are viruses which infect pretty much anything they touch. Adenoviruses are a good example of this. Although they are commonly thought of as a human virus, you put them on pretty much any cell (including insect cells, of all things) and they'll infect.
Do we understand how this works? It could be seen as either incidental, being genetic code defines physical life, and these infect in such a "low level" way as to infect everthing with this tye of encoding code, or specific - is it's targeting a specific genetic structure (or segment) within each organism (plant and animal alike) ... i'm almost guessing any cell within the organism.

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Mike.
 
MikeFerrara:
Noah was 500 years old when he started having children and 600 years old when the flood started. We don't know how much time he spent building the ark. I have heard 120 years but I haven't found any Biblical support of that. I doubt it would have been short notice because Gods pattern (if we can call it that) is to give notice and give people a chance to repent...as He did in Jonahs case.

Him being 600 years old doesn't bother you in the least? It's a biological impossibility.
 
MikeFerrara:
The Bible doesn't tell us how he gathered the animals but I doubt he had to take butterfly nets and go afield to hunt and capture them. The Bible doesn't say but my guess is that God would have sent the animals to Noah.

And the physical impossibility of building a wooden structure capable of floating that weight doesn't bug you? Did God make an invisible forcefield around it?
 
MikeFerrara:
Noah was 500 years old when he started having children and 600 years old when the flood started. We don't know how much time he spent building the ark. I have heard 120 years but I haven't found any Biblical support of that. I doubt it would have been short notice because Gods pattern (if we can call it that) is to give notice and give people a chance to repent...as He did in Jonahs case.

When God told Noah to go into the ark with the animals God said that after 7 more days He would cause it to rain. Nowhere does it suggest that Noah only had 7 days to build the ark.

The Bible doesn't tell us how he gathered the animals but I doubt he had to take butterfly nets and go afield to hunt and capture them. The Bible doesn't say but my guess is that God would have sent the animals to Noah.

Genesis 7:7 states that Noah and his family entered the ark. Genesis 7:8-9 state the animals "... went into the ark to Noah." Even today animals seem to know when catastrophe is about to strike. Humans prefer to go to the beach and watch the big wave(s).
 
Soggy:
Him being 600 years old doesn't bother you in the least? It's a biological impossibility.

I know you have no time for me, and that's fine, but perhaps you should open your mind to other possibilities. After all, you currently believe that everything "just happened" despite lack of direct observation of all that you believe in.
 
Soggy:
Noah and the ark. How is it possible? As I understand it, God gave a command, and Noah followed without intervention from God. He, as a mortal (a 700 year old mortal!?), managed to build a wooden ark of impossible size, get every single species on board, and keep them alive with only 7 days notice.

Please tell me how we can reconcile the impossibility of this situation with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

Your understanding is in error. Perhaps it's a reading comprehension problem. :eyebrow:
 
Green_Manelishi:
I know you have no time for me, and that's fine, but perhaps you should open your mind to other possibilities. After all, you currently believe that everything "just happened" despite lack of direct observation of all that you believe in.

Open my mind to 600 year old humans? Sorry, chief...not gonna happen since there is *no* documentation in existence that claims humans have ever lived that long, except for your one book of stories. What happened? Why are there no 600 year olds around today? What cut our life expectancy by a factor of 8-10 (10 is an order of magnitude!)

I believe everything "just happened" *because* of the direct observations. You telling lies about them doesn't make them go away. "Just because you say it, doesn't mean it is true."
 
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