Creation vs. Evolution

[H2Andy]

"The radical Islamists belive they will rule the world tomorrow, the moderates are willing to wait until next week."

he doesn't know what he's talking about

next

Why do people not believe this?

because even Al Quaeda (you will admit, the most radical of all radical Islamic movements) is not interested in taking over the world.

their goals:

1. kick the infidels (us) out of Saudi Arabia (where two of the three holiest shrines in Islam are located, to whit, Medina and Mecca; the third is the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem)

2. eliminate Western inflence over the Arab world; this by necessity implies the destruction of Israel

3. Unify the Arab World in a New Califate


they might achieve 1; good luck achieving 2. anybody who knows the Middle East knows that 3 is a pipedream. it never happend, even in Islam's heyday in the 12th Century

as for "taking over the world," that might become a goal ... once they unify the Arab World in a New Califate

again ... good frigging luck

 

[Kim]

Well, an interesting question would be...aside from your outstanding intellect, what things have contributed to your world view?

I find it helpful to try and be objective about that sometimes.

"Outstanding intellect"???? Hardly......

My world view is to a large extent built from talking to all the different people I've met travelling around the planet. My father was in the British Army and I was born travelling...almost literally. The countless moves that we did...and the different places that we moved to meant learning how to get to know somewhere new as fast, and as well, as possible. As you can imagine, in a situation like that coming into somewhere new with a "I know it all already" attitude really doesn't fly. It pays to listen to other people and see how they have worked it out. It's also very interesting to do. One thing I find rather odd in this world of increasing globalisation is that actually many are still extremely parochial and suspicious and scared of others who they perceive to be "different". It's an interesting contradiction in a world where communication is getting easier every day. I mean...using Skype I can hold a conference conversation with people from several countries and locations etc...all over the planet....for free!!!! You'd think that that kind of communication would help people to see each others concerns and address them. Unfortunately I don't see that we have really learned how to do that yet though - certainly not at the political level where by some accounts they've just about learned how to use an Internet search engine!

 

[H2Andy]

No one will go to hell because they don't believe what they want Him to. The only people that will go to hell are the ones that deserve it - those who have broken His laws. (For simplistic sence - refer to the 10 commandments).

sorry, that is not Christian doctrine

Christians are saved by grace, through faith. No one can "earn" their way to heaven.

If you are not saved, you will not go to heaven, no matter how "righteous" you are

Orthodox Christian teaching (based on Revelations) teaches that after God judges all men (one assumes women too), those who are not saved will be cast with the Devil into the lake of fire which is "the second death." (Revelation 20:21)

from this passage, the doctrine of Hell emerged. many Christians (though not all) believe quite literally that the unsaved (i.e. most of the world) will end up in a lake of fire, suffering for eternity, while the saved (i.e. Christians) will be in heaven with God and Jesus.

i am summarizing, but that's the gist of it

 

[scubafool]

Step back from the edge of the abyss, please. This thread has been far too entertaining to allow it to suffer such an ill fate.

 

[Cacia]

One thing I find rather odd in this world of increasing globalisation is that actually many are still extremely parochial and suspicious and scared of others who they perceive to be "different".

When I go places, I never really see that. I hear about it, prepare myself and then when I get there it doesn't unfold. But, the world is in chaos, that is true.

yes, that is pretty much the Christianity version I got, Andy. That version was tough to take....certain parts of that just cannot be true....I finally decided they screwed up that part. No one could answer the question of why some kid in Africa who had never heard of Jesus would burn in hell....
I decided to just not put too much emphasis on that part, to be honest.

 

[adza]

Hi Andy,

sorry, that is not Christian doctrine

Christians are saved by grace, through faith. No one can "earn" their way to heaven.

Absolutely correct. I never said anyone could earn their way to heaven. I said that those who have broken the law will go to hell. According to the bible, that is everyone.

If you are not saved, you will not go to heaven, no matter how "righteous" you are
Orthodox Christian teaching (based on Revelations) teaches that after God judges all men (one assumes women too), those who are not saved will be cast with the Devil into the lake of fire which is "the second death." (Revelation 20:21)

I agree with this take completely. I'm not understanding where we disagree here. (Unless it's my take on being saved - which I believe one has to actually repent of their sins). Is that what you disagree with?

from this passage, the doctrine of Hell emerged. many Christians (though not all) believe quite literally that the unsaved (i.e. most of the world) will end up in a lake of fire, suffering for eternity, while the saved (i.e. Christians) will be in heaven with God and Jesus.

Yes - as do I. I'm a little confused. Can you please let me know where have I stated something that's not Christian doctrine. Ta.

i am summarizing, but that's the gist of it

Sounds like you have it pretty right from what you've just stated - however this seems to disagree with your signature. In that, you state that those that don't believe what God wants them to - go to hell. I'm simply stating that "that's" not the reason they go to hell. They go to hell because of their sins - Unless they accept to repent, and take of the gift offered to them - which is Jesus the Christ - who will pay their debt for them.).

Cheers

 

[H2Andy]

you state that those that don't believe what God wants them to - go to hell. I'm simply stating that "that's" not the reason they go to hell. They go to hell because of their sins - Unless they accept to repent, and take of the gift offered to them - which is Jesus the Christ - who will pay their debt for them.).

how about if you don't believe in sin? what if you don't belive you need Jesus to be saved?

you don't belive what God wants you to, so you go to hell

 

[adza]

Hi Catherine,

yes, that is pretty much the Christianity version I got, Andy. That version was tough to take....certain parts of that just cannot be true....I finally decided they screwed up that part. No one could answer the question of why some kid in Africa who had never heard of Jesus would burn in hell....
I decided to just not put too much emphasis on that part, to be honest.

That is indeed a hard one. I don't have a complete understanding on this myself. Probably one of the best I've heard todate though would be this guy:

http://mrdumpling.easingthebadger.com/2005/02/06/virtuous-pagans/

Cheers

 

[adza]

how about if you don't believe in sin? what if you don't belive you need Jesus to be saved?

you don't belive what God wants you to, so you go to hell

Whether you believe in sin or not is not an issue. (It doesn't matter if you believe in the law of the land or not - if you transgress, you pay the fine - as Harvard found out recently. By the sounds of it, he didn't believe he was breaking the law by not paying tax. Isn't going to help him out in court though. Ignorance is not an excuse)

The issue is no different with us and God. Whether we believe we have sinned or not is not an issue. The one who makes the law will judge us by that law. Not much different to what we have (except we have corruption :14.

Edit: Of course though - if you're talking about those who will never hear the gospel of Christ - then I don't have all the answers, but as posted previous to Cathrine above - that bloke has probably put the best example on it tht I can think of todate. (Not saying that I agree 100% - but it's the best attempt at an explanation I've heard)

Cheers

 

[H2Andy]

Whether you believe in sin or not is not an issue.

oh, but it is...

God basically says "You believe everything I tell you is the truth or you go to hell"

thus, because I don't believe what God wants me to, I go to hell