Creation vs. Evolution

[Soggy]

Here are a few quotes from some of those "idiots" who are open to the possibility that God exists and had a hand in the creation of our universe...

Whoa there, who said "idiot"? My stance is that it is foolish not to accept the theory of evolution, but that does not say anything about the existence of god. The two are not mutually exclusive. Strict, literal Christianity is at odds with the theory, but many religious beliefs are not.

 

[bwerb]

Alright...so we've acknowledged that a belief in God isn't an immediately identifiable trait of the completely deluded...that's a good step.

 

[Soggy]

Alright...so we've acknowledged that a belief in God isn't an immediately identifiable trait of the completely deluded...that's a good step.

No, believing in god does not make one a completely irrational human being. The terms of that belief might, but not the basic belief in god.

 

[agilis]

An excellent example of the phenomenal fine tuning in the universe to fit the very narrow requirements of humans is the perfect placement of eyes, ears and nose to match the configuration of eyeglasses.

 

[H2Andy]

yes, and isn't it amazing that we live in 21% O2 air and are somehow amazingly able to survive in just such an environment?

wouldn't it have sucked if instead Earth's atmosphere would have had only 10% O2?
why, we wouldn't have been able to survive!

it must be proof that there is a designer at work

 

[bwerb]

Fine tuning...



That's the type of fine tuning of the universe we're talking about.

An Estimate of the Probability for Attaining the Necessary Parameters for Life Support
Parameter Probability that feature will fall in the required range

galaxy size .1

galaxy type .1

galaxy location .1

star location relative to galactic center .2

star distance from closest spiral arm .1

z-axis extremes of star's orbit .1

proximity of solar nebula to a supernova eruption .01

timing of solar nebula formation relative to supernova eruption .01

number of stars in system .2

star birth date .2

star age .4

star metallicity .05

star orbital eccentricity .1

star's distance from galactic plane .1

star mass .001

star luminosity relative to speciation .0001

star color .4

3H+ production .1

supernovae rates and locations .01

white dwarf binary types, rates, and locations .01

planetary distance from star .001

inclination of planetary orbit .5

planetary axis tilt .3

rate of change of axial tilt .01

planetary rotation period .1

rate of change in planetary rotation period .05

planetary orbit eccentricity .3

surface gravity (escape velocity) .001

tidal force .1

magnetic field .01

albedo .1

density .1

planetary crust thickness .01

oceans-to-continents ratio .2

rate of change in oceans-to-continents ratio .1

global distribution of continents .3

frequency and extent of ice ages .1

asteroid and comet collision rate .1

change in asteroid and comet collision rates .1

mass of body colliding with primordial Earth .002

timing of collision with primordial Earth .05

rate of change in asteroid/comet collision rate .1

proximity and mass of Jupiter .01

major planet eccentricities .1

major planet orbital instabilities .1

drift rate and rate change of major planets .1

atmospheric transparency .01

atmospheric pressure .1

atmospheric electric discharge rate .1

atmospheric temperature gradient .01

carbon dioxide level in atmosphere .01

oxygen level in atmosphere .01

chlorine level in atmosphere .1

iron quantity in oceans .1

tropospheric ozone quantity .01

stratospheric ozone quantity .01

mesospheric ozone quantity .01

water vapor level in atmosphere .01

oxygen-to-nitrogen ratio in atmosphere .1

quantity of greenhouse gases in atmosphere .01

frequency and extent of forest and grass fires .01

soil mineralization .1

quantity of sea-salt aerosols .1

quantity of decomposer bacteria in soil .01

quantity of mycorrhizal fungi in soil .01

quantity of nitrifying microbes in soil .01

quantity of sulfur in soil .1

quantity of sulfur in planet's core .1

tectonic activity .1

volcanic activity .1

decline in volcanic activity .1

viscosity of Earth's core at core boundaries .01

biomass to comet-infall ratio .01

regularity of cometary infall .1

dependency factors (estimate) 100,000,000,000

longevity requirements (estimate) .00001


Probability for combined occurrence of all 75 parameters = 10-99

Maximum possible number of planets in universe = 1023


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Taken from Ross, H. 1998.


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By putting together probabilities for each of these design features occurring by chance, we can calculate the probability of the existence of a planet like Earth. This probability is 1 chance in 1099. Since there are estimated to be a maximum of only 1023 planets in the universe (10 planets/star, see note below), by chance there shouldn't be any planets capable of supporting life in the universe.


The ratio of electrons to protons can have maximum deviation of 1:10 37th power...this type of probability can be visualized like this...

One part in 1037 is such an incredibly sensitive balance that it is hard to visualize. The following analogy might help: Cover the entire North American continent in dimes all the way up to the moon, a height of about 239,000 miles (In comparison, the money to pay for the U.S. federal government debt would cover one square mile less than two feet deep with dimes.). Next, pile dimes from here to the moon on a billion other continents the same size as North America. Paint one dime red and mix it into the billions of piles of dimes. Blindfold a friend and ask him to pick out one dime. The odds that he will pick the red dime are one in 1037.

 

[H2Andy]

of course, you realize that if life is at all possible, it will adapt to whatever conditions it finds?

so to say "look at Earth, look at all it takes for a planet to harbor life" you are actually begging the question...

you see that logical fallacy, right?

it's like looking at a coral and saying, if you change any of a thousand variables, the coral would look different.

well, yeah... then the coral would look different. it doesn't because those conditions didin't exist. it looks like this because these conditions exist.

if another set of conditions existed, and the coral looked different, you still could make the logical fallacy and say, "wow, what a miracle! look at all the different conditions it took for the thing to look like it does..."

Fine tuning...

[snip]

 

[sandjeep]

Now, for those that remember, you know why I said that *IF* aliens existed they would look like us.

 

[Soggy]

Fine tuning...

I am incredibly confused. Why are there only 1023 planets in the universe? Where did these estimated probabilities come from?

 

[Soggy]

Now, for those that remember, you know why I said that *IF* aliens existed they would look like us.

I do remember, but I don't have any clue why you think they would look like us.