Cozumel makes "No" List for 2020

[Kmart921]

I wasn’t aware that we were factoring in all that stuff. If the argument is based on “you get what you pay for...” then Coz is still likely a great choice.

Cruise ship terminals bring their own kind of Hell, both for the water and the communities where they dock.

I guess what I was trying to say is that the remote areas where there are very few people and no cruise ships are naturally going to have better diving. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

Yes I meant no cruise ships as an absolute plus for the outer cayes. It's clearly not been good for many places in the Caribbean.

 

[Christi]

I will never be convinced that this problem is anything other than direct and indirect effects of the cruise ship industry.

If you look at the affected areas vs the predominant cruise ship routes and the timeline of the evolution of the cruise ship industry and the development of the coral disease - it's a no brainer to me. This is NOT coincidence. Are there other possible factors? sure there are - but I don't believe that it's responsible divers. The other main factor in my opinion is the improper runoff from resorts.

Disclaimer: I don't have the time, energy or desire to debate this and won't engage in debate on this topic - this topic and my involvement on this topic on a local level has exhausted me - these are my opinions and I stand by them.

 

[deepsea21]

As for futile, are you saying all of those coral are dead men walking now. No sense trying to help at all? I am just guessing no matter how bad some of the brains will live, how small that number is I don't know. So some don't get infected. So if you stop the disease on one brain, why is it not possible it wont get reinfected?

I did see a lot of silly putty fails, but I saw a number winning. Seems worth the try.

And the non-smoking section did have less smoke....

The problem with SCTLD is it is an infection carried in the water, it isn't transmitted by touch. Some attempts made in the FL Keys as this seems to have originated in Miami involved the chlorine and antibiotic based application of the "silly puddy" followed by the more drastic grinding a trench into the unaffected coral behind the line of infection and treatment as a secondary measure to prevent the spread. However, some cases where that was done early resulted in the coral becoming infected in a new area beyond the "silly puddy" and the cut trench later because the disease is carried in the water. If it were not carried in the water there is no way it could be spreading throughout the Caribbean at the rate it is and infecting even remote areas where very few humans dive.

I say all hard corals that are susceptible to SCTLD throughout the Caribbean are indeed dead men walking as based on the scientific evidence to date, trying to contain, limit or stop the spread by physical on site and individual treatment is futile. I think the scientists in south Florida realized this and that is why they are now harvesting and keeping hard corals that are susceptible to this disease in on-land confinement that they hope can serve to re-seed the reefs in the distant future.

As I stated, they are literally keeping and inventorying a protected "Coral Ark" in the FL Keys now. If they thought they could beat this, there would be no need to take such measures but they too have seen the reality of it and realized that trying to protect what is in place is futile. Other countries that are just beginning to see their reefs infected may come to the same realization in time as they haven't had the time nor the resources to study it as scientists in the FL keys have.

 

[ggunn]

The problem with SCTLD is it is an infection carried in the water, it isn't transmitted by touch. Some attempts made in the FL Keys as this seems to have originated in Miami involved the chlorine and antibiotic based application of the "silly puddy" followed by the more drastic grinding a trench into the unaffected coral behind the line of infection and treatment as a secondary measure to prevent the spread. However, some cases where that was done early resulted in the coral becoming infected in a new area beyond the "silly puddy" and the cut trench later because the disease is carried in the water. If it were not carried in the water there is no way it could be spreading throughout the Caribbean at the rate it is and infecting even remote areas where very few humans dive.

I say all hard corals that are susceptible to SCTLD throughout the Caribbean are indeed dead men walking as based on the scientific evidence to date, trying to contain, limit or stop the spread by physical on site and individual treatment is futile. I think the scientists in south Florida realized this and that is why they are now harvesting and keeping hard corals that are susceptible to this disease in on-land confinement that they hope can serve to re-seed the reefs in the distant future.

As I stated, they are literally keeping and inventorying a protected "Coral Ark" in the FL Keys now. If they thought they could beat this, there would be no need to take such measures but they too have seen the reality of it and realized that trying to protect what is in place is futile. Other countries that are just beginning to see their reefs infected may come to the same realization in time as they haven't had the time nor the resources to study it as scientists in the FL keys have.

I think you are spot on; this is the coral's equivalent of the Black Plague in medieval Europe. IMO it is likely that ships that fill and empty their ballast tanks at sea are far more contributory to the spread of this malady than are divers, but the situation may have now reached a critical point where now even that doesn't make all that much difference any more. Rising ocean temperatures worldwide probably have a hand in it as well. I am afraid that this may be the new normal.

 

[WetInPortland]

Citing, "Sickly coral reefs in need of healing," Fodor's Travel has added Cozumel, along with the Florida Keys, to it's 2020 No List.

While the article makes it sound like the entire park is currently closed instead of only the southern sites, one has to wonder what the traveling public will make of this? Surely the cruise lines would attempt to address any drop in bookings with lower prices in order to fill ships? It will be interesting to see what, if any, reaction comes from the local tourism authorities.

Rather than a discussion of what the traveling public (at large, not just divers) will think of this, or the cruise lines, or what the local tourism reaction will be, I see the thread has focused on the headline, "Sickly coral reefs in need of healing" (Dave's and Christi's comments have been largely directed in this vein as well).

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of Scubaboard to go off the deep end ...

 

[Kmart921]

Rather than a discussion of what the traveling public (at large, not just divers) will think of this, or the cruise lines, or what the local tourism reaction will be, I see the thread has focused on the headline, "Sickly coral reefs in need of healing" (Dave's and Christi's comments have been largely directed in this vein as well).

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of Scubaboard to go off the deep end ...

Here's an answer: I don't think the traveling public at large really cares about the reefs. Divers actually make up a shockingly small percentage of the visitors to these islands compared to those who come in on cruise ships and never explore the underwater environment. In some cases the island governments don't care about the reefs either -- Grand Cayman is actually planning to dredge up a large section of coral to make room for a new cruise port. This thread zeroed in on that part of the headline because that is what divers care about.

I believe that if you gave the Cozumel / Grand Cayman / wherever governments the choice between having 4 million cruise passengers per year but completely dead reefs, or healthy reefs and no cruise passengers, they would pick the cruises every time.

 

[WetInPortland]

Here's an answer: I don't think the traveling public at large really cares about the reefs. Divers actually make up a shockingly small percentage of the visitors to these islands compared to those who come in on cruise ships and never explore the underwater environment. In some cases the island governments don't care about the reefs either -- Grand Cayman is actually planning to dredge up a large section of coral to make room for a new cruise port. This thread zeroed in on that part of the headline because that is what divers care about.

I believe that if you gave the Cozumel / Grand Cayman / wherever governments the choice between having 4 million cruise passengers per year but completely dead reefs, or healthy reefs and no cruise passengers, they would pick the cruises every time.

To paraphrase, you predict that the reaction to the Fodor's article is going to be a collective, "Meh." That's about what I thought. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Kmart921]

To paraphrase, you predict that the reaction to the Fodor's article is going to be a collective, "Meh." That's about what I thought. Nothing to see here, move along.

Pretty much...

 

[RIHappyDiver]

To paraphrase, you predict that the reaction to the Fodor's article is going to be a collective, "Meh." That's about what I thought. Nothing to see here, move along.

The cruise lines have already put there itineraries together for the upcoming year, so, most likely, no changes there. Generally, the cruising public doesn’t look at guide books, and those that do won’t until after they have booked.
The ones who do look before booking will probably be thinking ‘but this trip includes Belize or Costa Maya or Roatan, so we’ll not expect much from Coz, but we’ll enjoy the other stops’.

Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s my take.

Erik

 

[cvchief]

Rather than a discussion of what the traveling public (at large, not just divers) will think of this, or the cruise lines, or what the local tourism reaction will be, I see the thread has focused on the headline, "Sickly coral reefs in need of healing" (Dave's and Christi's comments have been largely directed in this vein as well).

I never cease to be amazed at the ability of Scubaboard to go off the deep end ...

I would like to be loud and argumentative about the complete absurdity of your opinion of scubaboard's ability.

Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?