Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[Dan G]

Someone else used the term "free climbing", but you're right, I've too have always understood it as climbing without rope. What I'm talking about is light climbing, where people leave the overnight gear behind for a summit, preferring to keep to a small pack for speed and hope to make it up and down without some calamity requiring an overnight stay. Summitting high peaks without oxygen is another parallel with stupid diving as it's more dangerous to forego the use of oxygen just as it's more dangerous to forego the use of helium on deep dives.

Free climbing is when you climb without pulling on or using anything other than your body to get up the rock. This is contrary to aid climbing which is when a climber puts gear in the rock and literally pulls up on it to accend. Free soloing is with no aid and no rope. If you want a climbing analogy, then it needs to be this:

A sport climber (a free climber who only fixes the rope to pre-drilled protection points) decides to embark on a long multi-pitch route that requires he/ she place all of their own protection/ set up all anchors/ and do a route that requires route finding. Additionally, this sport climber does this style of climbing not well within their own established limits in sport climbing, but does a route at or near their sport climbing limit. The result is an ill prepared climber who will not be seen as pushing the limits of their sport by their peers, but someone who ignored the reality that their experience in one aspect of the sport does in no way prepare them for any other aspect of the sport.

Additionally, climbers who climb at extreme altitude with no oxygen, are able to accomplish this with dedicated training. Again, speed in the mountains adds an element of safety. Climbers who go fast and light, still use safety gear, they just use less of it, and they are well trained to do so.

I am not trying to turn this into a climbing thread. Nor am I trying to nit pick about climbing definitions. I see parallels between climbing and diving, and I'd like the parallels to be accurate.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I went deeper than I should have once, really enjoyed the narced feeling and in my drunken state was tempted to go down more - but the Op owner clanged his tank so I ascended. I could have been on that ventilator for weeks, or worse.

Utila ... right? I'm glad you took something useful from that experience before you got hurt ... I wish these divers had ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fdog]

No, I believe they thought it was reasonable given their lack of precautions. If they really thought it would be unreasonable dangerous, they would have skipped the dive or found some ways to mitigate their risk.

An excellent post Mossman, and quite insightful.

They did not perceive this dive as hella dangerous; this implies a lack of experience or training, either of which would have given them that perception.


All the best, James

 

[Mike]

An excellent post Mossman, and quite insightful.

They did not perceive this dive as hella dangerous; this implies a lack of experience or training, either of which would have given them that perception.

I don't think that's probably an accurate description of the divers. Two of these are very experienced divers with thousands of dives under their belts. It's logical to believe this dive was just one more in a long series of deep dives on air that they have made over the years. They had plenty of experience, and they weren't putting off any training to be had, because they didn't want it in the first place, this was simply a normal thing for them that they've done many times before. Luck just ran out. Opal lost the game of chicken with narcosis and that's all it took to turn something that they've gotten away with before into a dive accident.

 

[WSOPFAN]

It's impossible to know what was in the minds of these divers.

No it's not......some people know exactly what they were thinking just minutes before the dive but so far nobody with that first hand knowledge has commented here.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

An excellent post Mossman, and quite insightful.

They did not perceive this dive as hella dangerous; this implies a lack of experience or training, either of which would have given them that perception.


All the best, James

I don't think so James ... what it implies is that the divers succumbed to a rather common misperception in their abilities to "handle it". Most divers have a tendency to think of themselves as more able to deal with adversity than they really are. I think it's even more common among very experienced divers.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

No it's not......some people know exactly what they were thinking just minutes before the dive but so far nobody with that first hand knowledge has commented here.

I don't think Opal has the ability to comment just now ... but can you imagine what it must be like to wake up in a hospital and realize that you're going to spend the rest of your life paralyzed because of a dive like that?

If it was me, I think I'd rather not survive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[WSOPFAN]

Quote Originally Posted by WSOPFAN View Post
No it's not......some people know exactly what they were thinking just minutes before the dive but so far nobody with that first hand knowledge has commented here.

I don't think Opal has the ability to comment just now ... but can you imagine what it must be like to wake up in a hospital and realize that you're going to spend the rest of your life paralyzed because of a dive like that?

If it was me, I think I'd rather not survive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree......also I was referring to other people besides the divers themselves. There were co-workers and others that morning who observed them and so far that info has yet to be posted ........first hand of course.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

You and I both, Bob. It's a nightmare you can't really wake up from, or turn-off for that matter.

 

[fdog]

An excellent post Mossman, and quite insightful.

They did not perceive this dive as hella dangerous; this implies a lack of experience or training, either of which would have given them that perception.


All the best, James

Arrgh.

I can see brevity isn't neccessarily a virtue here.

Would a person with significant experience in deep diving, having occasionally made small mistakes and learning from them to dive in a manner that fails safely, and gleening skills and techniques from others skilled in deep diving (who build a dive around their own mistakes), have made this dive? Of course not. Their experience would have showed the deficiencies in this plan.

Would a person who had completed a trainng class in deep diving, which condenses the lessons learned from experience into a cirricula, have made this dive? Of course not. Their training would have showed the deficiencies in this plan.



So, perhaps I should have phrased this differently:

They did not perceive this dive as hella dangerous; this implies a lack of: (1) experience with planning and executing deep dives safely with ample allowance for failures, or, (2) training in deep diving safely in a failure tolerant manner. Either of which would have given them that perception of danger.



Nobody is saying these divers didn't have lots of dives. Their experience level for a rather limited skill set was high. They did not have adequate experience for this particular skill set, nor the training for this particular skill set.



All the best, James