Cozumel Incident 9/4/11

[Jax]

Jax, I have some additional thoughts on this:

How would you feel if you had planned your dive (with a reasonable dive plan) and took an undeserved hit....and there's no boat to administer oxygen prior to getting you to a chamber? I, for one, would be quite upset....especially if it turned out that those who were taken to the chamber were taken because they did something stupid, while I took an "undeserved" hit.

How would you feel if your buddy had some sort of medical emergency (heart attack??) and there was no way to get him/her out of the water and possibly to safety....and then quickly to a hospital?

It's not applicable in tropical waters, but worth mentioning as an incident like this could easily happen elsewhere. How would you feel if you were diving in cold water (say low 50's) and managed to tear a seal and cause a full flood in your drysuit? After long enough (and that's not particularly long...), you'll become hypothermic.

And as has been touched on, it is not a good idea to leave divers sitting in a high-traffic area. Even with an SMB, divers could very easily be overlooked.


Sure, it would be nice for divers who are showing symptoms to be rushed to the chamber....but not at the cost of other divers, imo. If it were possible to get another boat to take the divers in need to the chamber, or to pick up the divers still in the water, I see absolutely no reason why that option wouldn't be chosen (sounds like it wasn't possible in this case). But to leave other divers who may be in need doesn't sound like the right option to me.

I understand what you are saying, but someone -- the Cap'n -- has to make a decision of who has the greater need at this time.

This sort of thing is quite heavily trained in the military, and we don't sweat the 'what ifs'. You may desperately want close air support NOW, but if it is otherwise committed, you aren't going to have it. You don't spend one nano-second on should've-could've-oughtto've, but just jump to the next best thing.

You may want a medevac NOW, but it is otherwise engaged. The wait time is too long, in your opinion, so you put out a call on range channels for anyone with med experience. Halleluiah, there's a medic with the infantry battalion two ranges over.

I do not questions the Cap'ns' decision to do what he did. He was there, I was not. I have faith that he made the very best decision he could make in that immediate moment in time. I seek to understand what were alternatives.

And, now I know the left-behind divers may have drifted into boating lanes. No choice. Very sad.

 

[Crush]

Let's put forth a scenario. Two groups of divers on one boat.

Group A is the one we know about. Planned depth: 320'. Time at 320' one to two minutes. Using the 8 minute listing on post #34, total planned dive time is around 48 minutes.

Group B is not well known but will I assume 2-4 divers. Planned depth 250'. Time at 250' one to two minutes. Total planned dive time probably less than Group A but will assume 50 minutes for extra outgassing.

How did you ever come up with those dive times?! Were you assuming descent and ascent rates of 100 fpm with a SAC of 0.3?! Even so, the air would be gone in less than 15 minutes on AL80s...

Jax just PM'd me to spare me some embarrassment - apparently, according to vPlanner, that profile is doable. I just used a spreadsheet, so maybe I made a mistake.

 

[Jax]

You forget the third choice of not letting the sillines of two different dives carrying on. Makes me wonder if the captain had knowledge of the plan beforehand.

Really?

I've been on boats with as many as five groups. Five buddy pairs.

I've seen four groups. Two instructors w/two students each, and two buddy pairs.

I have seen more than one group many many many times.

 

[Ron Lee]

Crush, read post #34. Feel free to modify my scenario but the essence of your timeline may be about the same as mine.

 

[fdog]

Let's put forth a scenario. Two groups of divers on one boat.

Group A is the one we know about. Planned depth: 320'. Time at 320' one to two minutes. Using the 8 minute listing on post #34, total planned dive time is around 48 minutes.

Group B is not well known but will I assume 2-4 divers. Planned depth 250'. Time at 250' one to two minutes. Total planned dive time probably less than Group A but will assume 50 minutes for extra outgassing.

Both enter at the same time. Group A takes about five minutes to get to 320'. Recognizing the still descending diver, getting to her and getting back to 320' takes five minutes. Gabi evaluates the situation when all three are together and within a minute they are ascending. They reach the surface about 16 minutes after entering the water.

Group B is unaware of the events of Group A. By the time Group A surfaces, Group B is around 80' as part of the outgassing (decompression) process. Three minutes later they hear a signal to ascend. They have around 30 minutes left to properly decompress/outgas. What do they do?My opinion (which may get me banned from my normal dive shop) is that I am going to continue my profile. Why risk 5-7 people with DCS as opposed to three? I have no problem being left behind in normal Cozumel dive sites. Particularly if I am in the Palancar area (better site selection), I will be picked up by someone. The boat captain can radio to other boats my approximate location.

We hear of dive ops that send people up when they run low on air (normal time to ascend air levels). That may be risky for newer divers. I am confident that I have enough experience to watch for boats and take evasive action if need be.

So with benefit of hindsight, my view is still that it is far more important to get the three critically injured people to a chamber and that the risk to me is extremely low and manageable.

Would I sue the dive shop? No. This is my formal statement that I want them to tend to the critically injured first and take action to get me back to shore as a secondary priority.

However, I would not be offended if they bought me breakfast at Rock n Java the next day.

I would launch a bag and complete my deco. If topside has something to say they can slide it down the line.

All the best, James

 

[Crush]

I just answered my own question - you can do it with a SAC of 0.3, 100 fpm ascent and descent, and an AL80 filled to 8000 psi.

Yes, I know that an AL80 holds 3000 psi.

 

[Mossman]

I've seen a reg & tank hung at 15 ft at the back of the boat. I figured if I ever counted on it, then there would be two divers already on it when I got there. I plan my dive by the tank on my back, less the 500 psi reserve I plan to use only in an emergency, then carry my exta in my 19 cf slung on my side. It's rare to see a pony in Coz, and it's a hassle to service the tank & reg annually, then pack it, transport it, get it filled on arrival, board it along with all my other gear, and pass it up to the skipper before I exit - but it goes where I do. ilot:

I used one once, in Truk Lagoon. Last dive of the trip. My buddy and I were trying to find the mooring line that led back to the boat. I was pushing my NDC limit according to my computer, so I started to rise in the water column to prolong my time. At some point I had ascended enough that I could see the hang bar and dangling tank from the boat, so I felt I was fine. Waited a few minutes for my buddy to look my way so I could point out the way to the boat but he was oblivious. Finally, getting short on air and already having exceeded my NDC limit, I slowly made my way toward the hang bar, occasionally glancing toward my buddy. Finally he noticed me, fortunately before I had gotten completely out of visual range, and I motioned him my way, then got to the hang tank and did a good 10 minutes for insurance even though my ultra-liberal (Cochran) computer had already cleared.

 

[betsyinczm]

(I see there are many more posts since I was typing this, so forgive me if someone has made the same comments as mine below)

After reading the last few pages here, I thought I would jump in with a little geography and some other facts about the Villa Blanca Wall dive area.
(Disclaimer-----I have approx 6000 dives almost all in CZM in the 20 years I lived there---no longer live there, so I have been voraciously reading all these threads just like the rest of you and am NOT one of the "silent" who knows anything at all except what I have read here and on other forums)....but the most recent postings are making my head spin.

1) When you dive the VBW, you can easily travel as far as, if not a bit past, the Hotel Cozumel to the north of the Scuba Mau dive shop. There are boats quite often sitting waiting for afternoon dives at HC.

2) Please note how very many folks from SB and other forums have bragged about actually SWIMMING out to do "a shore dive" to the wall. (and how many have reminded them to please take some kind of flag or SMB, etc.......(I believe you have commented many times on this, Dandy Don).

3) The channel in this area is full of traffic returning to either downtown piers, the northern marina, or to hotels south of the downtown and exactly in front of any VBW dive.

4) The car ferry runs twice a day I believe or close to that and so the likelihood of it leaving or arriving mid day might be a moot point..........whatever the schedule, it isn't hourly.

5) The cruise ship piers are quite a bit farther south...........or north but not in this path.......so little danger there, with SMB's up...and most are already moored, I'd guess.

6) If the divers on a boat are not familiar with or briefed about the signals to FORCE them to ascend IMMEDIATELY, it doesn't matter because the DM's surely know and since they are the ones leading the dive they would (or should) immediately obey the captain's orders since HE is the one in charge, not the DM.

7) The marine radio channel for emergencies would have inspired so many to come and help from so close by......( I was once diving in the north---no drama, no craziness, no problems---except that my captain had an engine issue and couldn't get to us.......he radioed and we had ten boats coming to help in less than five minutes......some took us back to town, some towed the poor boat.......someone could have been at VBW even faster.

8) I assume (and would hope) that the PORT CAPTAIN would be aware of any distress calls and had the power to detain any car ferry IF necessary.


So there are a few facts........but as far as "opinions", those "other divers" and their scenario remain a mystery (to me at least), but I would have left them there to go to shore IMMEDIATELY.........knowing that they were with a DM and could actually kick to shore if they had to with a SMB and all of them together.....and knowing that another boat would be there (with 02 hopefully) in minutes in case of another emergency.

This is beyond tragic and like everybody, my prayers are with them all........especially Gabi who saved a life and the poor captain, who I am sure, will never be the same.

That's my two cents..........back to lurking.

 

[IJS]

Really?

I've been on boats with as many as five groups. Five buddy pairs.

I've seen four groups. Two instructors w/two students each, and two buddy pairs.

I have seen more than one group many many many times.

Rubbish. Proper captains frown on their charges at all different depths. too much compication tracking and recovering everyone on different schedules.

 

[Jax]

I would launch a bag and complete my deco. If topside has something to say they can slide it down the line.

All the best, James

Question -- if this were real . . . would you also move to the shore, and try to 'pin' yourself in location at deco depth, instead of continuing to drift with the current? If not, why not?