Covid-19 infection on a liveaboard at the Maldives
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Dan
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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...
A ScubaBoard Staff Message...
Please reread the topic title and stick to it.
drrich2
Contributor
Decisions about the threat level of COVID-19 and its variants, and the efficacy of vaccination and mitigation strategies, have to be informed by somebody. Dr. Fauci is one of the experts well-regarded as capable of giving such advice by many people, and he's influential. Even if you personally disagree with some point he made, he's influential and his views have an impact. He's also widely known and serves as a common frame of reference.
So many of us would listen to Dr. Fauci as part of informing ourselves about prospective travel, including to the Maldives. We may do our own thinking rather than blindly follow, but we'd listen to him.
For those considering a Maldives (or other) destination in the rest of 2021 or early 2022, who do you suggest as a superior information source? Please be specific.
Much of the discussion in this thread has focused on whether it is ‘safe’ to travel to the Maldives, or elsewhere. I have to wonder if, in doing so, we are missing a bigger point. Reading the article, I found four of the author’s comments to be of particular interest.
1. ‘This article is not about our decision to travel. We knew the risks we would be taking by travelling during a global pandemic. ‘ A very fair statement. But, in hindsight, is it accurate? Did they really know the risks, and consider the risk of how they would handle a situation of where they did get infected, requiring quarantine, in a country which may have a low case rate, but also a fragile economy. This is not a criticism of the group, rather a lesson for me coming out of their experience. Is that something that we now need to add to our risk assessment in planning a trip?
2. ‘We did a lot of research (which turned out not to be enough).’ A VERY insightful comment. And, one which deserves careful attention. Their ‘research’ was on case rates, the perceived risk of infection. They probably had no reason to consider with equal care HOW accommodating friends, airlines, the liveaboard operator, or Maldivian authorities would or even could be, in the unlikely, but nonetheless real event that they became infected. In fairness, almost none of us do. I certainly never thought of that in the past. Today, maybe I should.
3. 'This article is also not about how we arrived at this situation, but rather about what happened when it was determined that there was a covid case on our boat and we’d all need to quarantine.‘ And, that is what this discussion should be focused on – what can we learn from the experiences of others. The primary issue they dealt with was actually not the illness, although one member of their group apparently was hospitalized. Rather, they dealt with rather primitive quarantine conditions, with having to spend 14+ additional days away that they had not really planned on and more importantly, the rather complete uncertainty regarding quarantine times, etc. I sincerely doubt that the Maldivian government officials they dealt with were intentionally unhelpful. It is more likely that figuring out who could (i.e. had the authority) and would (i.e. take responsibility) make a decision, and what that decision should be, was the problem on the government side
4. 'Furthermore, this article is not a complaint about the fact that we had to quarantine (and pay for it)—‘ Kudos to the author – she was not complaining about the NEED for the quarantine. Did she and her colleagues really plan for that particular contingency, however? She thanked the people at home who helped out with care for pets, etc. She thanked the government personnel who were helpful. She did not say how much the cost of the quarantine affected her personal economic situation. I may go into debt to pay for a 10 day dive trip, or maybe, I have already put aside the resources to pay for the dive trip. Do I really want to go into debt to pay for an additional 14+ day quarantine, and the costs of changing flights to accommodate that quarantine? Do I need to also put aside resources to pay for 14 more days of quarantine, 'just in case' irrespective of my perception of the low risk of infection?
Those considerations are the important part of what we should learn from the experiences of the person writing the article, not whether, in hindsight, the policies of one government or another were ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, or whether we should listen to Dr. Fauci, or to another expert, or whether we can travel, dive, and return without infection. Yes, that last item is definitely very important! But, the issue also is, what happens if we do get infected, irrespective of how low the a priori probability is? Are we prepared for the risk of those consequences? I am not saying, don’t (or do) travel. I am suggesting that we have an opportunity to learn more about the nature of actual ‘risk’ in a time of a global pandemic, from the experience of others, such as the author of the linked article. And, what I learned was that the ‘risks’ of travel extend far beyond just the risk of infection.
The thread OP initially pointed out that the Maldives is trying to restart tourism, and therefore they should be doing a better job. Of course they SHOULD. The OP also mentioned that the Maldives have some of the most luxurious hotels in the world. Great. But, what is behind that luxurious façade? A well-developed public infrastructure? A thriving economy? Hardly. I mentioned in an earlier post that as recently as 10 years ago, the Maldives was considered to be among the world’s ‘Least Developed Countries’. That is not an insult, it is fact. And, more than a few of the comments in this thread continue to overlook the issue of whether the Maldives government has the ability to do better, notwithstanding what they SHOULD do, or their desire to do so. NO government was adequately prepared for a global pandemic such as COVID-19. NO government was fully prepared to deal with such a rapidly evolving situation. And, NO country had, or has, a health care infrastructure in place to address the sudden burden of large numbers of people who need / want to be tested for something for which there wasn’t even a test available a little over a year ago, or who need to be treated for an infection that was unknown a little over a year ago, or who need to be quarantined. Where are you going to quarantine 24 people, including 19 known to be infected, for 2 weeks? Certainly, NOT in the 'luxurious' hotels, in the midst of other paying, and uninfected, guests. Certainly, NOT on the liveaboard which may have other business bookings for the next 14 days. The fact that there was an isolated ‘resort’ available to accommodate the group is remarkable, even considering the conditions.
It is easy to say, ‘Sure, if I travel outside my country, when I return I may need to quarantine myself at home for 14 days.‘ Inconvenient, yes. But, we know our own ‘home’, we know what our local support system is, we know that we will nonetheless have availability of food, of sanitary conditions, of toilet paper, of insect spray. How many of us, planning to travel to Bonaire, or Cozumel, or Honduras, or the Maldives really plan for how we would handle quarantine in that country, moreover what the conditions of quarantine might well be? And how much it would cost us? And, whether our health insurance, which may work reasonably well at home, will work in another country? Those are the actual ‘risks’ which this group did not know. Again, I am not criticizing them at all, by the way. I really applaud the author of the article for sharing the experience. I have extensively travelled internationally for business, and pleasure, and I have always assumed that I could handle whatever happened, because I had enough global travel experience to see consistencies across countries. I do not feel that way right now, if for no other reason than ‘reality’ is changing, rapidly and continuously! (Plus, I have no desire to spend an additional $2K+ and 14+ days, at the luxurious ? star Fun Island Resort.
)
1. ‘This article is not about our decision to travel. We knew the risks we would be taking by travelling during a global pandemic. ‘ A very fair statement. But, in hindsight, is it accurate? Did they really know the risks, and consider the risk of how they would handle a situation of where they did get infected, requiring quarantine, in a country which may have a low case rate, but also a fragile economy. This is not a criticism of the group, rather a lesson for me coming out of their experience. Is that something that we now need to add to our risk assessment in planning a trip?
2. ‘We did a lot of research (which turned out not to be enough).’ A VERY insightful comment. And, one which deserves careful attention. Their ‘research’ was on case rates, the perceived risk of infection. They probably had no reason to consider with equal care HOW accommodating friends, airlines, the liveaboard operator, or Maldivian authorities would or even could be, in the unlikely, but nonetheless real event that they became infected. In fairness, almost none of us do. I certainly never thought of that in the past. Today, maybe I should.
3. 'This article is also not about how we arrived at this situation, but rather about what happened when it was determined that there was a covid case on our boat and we’d all need to quarantine.‘ And, that is what this discussion should be focused on – what can we learn from the experiences of others. The primary issue they dealt with was actually not the illness, although one member of their group apparently was hospitalized. Rather, they dealt with rather primitive quarantine conditions, with having to spend 14+ additional days away that they had not really planned on and more importantly, the rather complete uncertainty regarding quarantine times, etc. I sincerely doubt that the Maldivian government officials they dealt with were intentionally unhelpful. It is more likely that figuring out who could (i.e. had the authority) and would (i.e. take responsibility) make a decision, and what that decision should be, was the problem on the government side
4. 'Furthermore, this article is not a complaint about the fact that we had to quarantine (and pay for it)—‘ Kudos to the author – she was not complaining about the NEED for the quarantine. Did she and her colleagues really plan for that particular contingency, however? She thanked the people at home who helped out with care for pets, etc. She thanked the government personnel who were helpful. She did not say how much the cost of the quarantine affected her personal economic situation. I may go into debt to pay for a 10 day dive trip, or maybe, I have already put aside the resources to pay for the dive trip. Do I really want to go into debt to pay for an additional 14+ day quarantine, and the costs of changing flights to accommodate that quarantine? Do I need to also put aside resources to pay for 14 more days of quarantine, 'just in case' irrespective of my perception of the low risk of infection?
Those considerations are the important part of what we should learn from the experiences of the person writing the article, not whether, in hindsight, the policies of one government or another were ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, or whether we should listen to Dr. Fauci, or to another expert, or whether we can travel, dive, and return without infection. Yes, that last item is definitely very important! But, the issue also is, what happens if we do get infected, irrespective of how low the a priori probability is? Are we prepared for the risk of those consequences? I am not saying, don’t (or do) travel. I am suggesting that we have an opportunity to learn more about the nature of actual ‘risk’ in a time of a global pandemic, from the experience of others, such as the author of the linked article. And, what I learned was that the ‘risks’ of travel extend far beyond just the risk of infection.
The thread OP initially pointed out that the Maldives is trying to restart tourism, and therefore they should be doing a better job. Of course they SHOULD. The OP also mentioned that the Maldives have some of the most luxurious hotels in the world. Great. But, what is behind that luxurious façade? A well-developed public infrastructure? A thriving economy? Hardly. I mentioned in an earlier post that as recently as 10 years ago, the Maldives was considered to be among the world’s ‘Least Developed Countries’. That is not an insult, it is fact. And, more than a few of the comments in this thread continue to overlook the issue of whether the Maldives government has the ability to do better, notwithstanding what they SHOULD do, or their desire to do so. NO government was adequately prepared for a global pandemic such as COVID-19. NO government was fully prepared to deal with such a rapidly evolving situation. And, NO country had, or has, a health care infrastructure in place to address the sudden burden of large numbers of people who need / want to be tested for something for which there wasn’t even a test available a little over a year ago, or who need to be treated for an infection that was unknown a little over a year ago, or who need to be quarantined. Where are you going to quarantine 24 people, including 19 known to be infected, for 2 weeks? Certainly, NOT in the 'luxurious' hotels, in the midst of other paying, and uninfected, guests. Certainly, NOT on the liveaboard which may have other business bookings for the next 14 days. The fact that there was an isolated ‘resort’ available to accommodate the group is remarkable, even considering the conditions.
It is easy to say, ‘Sure, if I travel outside my country, when I return I may need to quarantine myself at home for 14 days.‘ Inconvenient, yes. But, we know our own ‘home’, we know what our local support system is, we know that we will nonetheless have availability of food, of sanitary conditions, of toilet paper, of insect spray. How many of us, planning to travel to Bonaire, or Cozumel, or Honduras, or the Maldives really plan for how we would handle quarantine in that country, moreover what the conditions of quarantine might well be? And how much it would cost us? And, whether our health insurance, which may work reasonably well at home, will work in another country? Those are the actual ‘risks’ which this group did not know. Again, I am not criticizing them at all, by the way. I really applaud the author of the article for sharing the experience. I have extensively travelled internationally for business, and pleasure, and I have always assumed that I could handle whatever happened, because I had enough global travel experience to see consistencies across countries. I do not feel that way right now, if for no other reason than ‘reality’ is changing, rapidly and continuously! (Plus, I have no desire to spend an additional $2K+ and 14+ days, at the luxurious ? star Fun Island Resort.
)People doing that will be why the second wave with this new variant is so much less severe then? Oh...
drrich2
Contributor
Colliam7 raises a number of good points, which lead me to a frustrating conclusion; an informed decision relies on knowing the situation, including 'what if' scenarios, and at this point, those are often unknowable these days. We could look at the original report as authoritative on how the Maldives handles COVID+ tourists detected at the end of their trip, but...the surprisingly poor execution suggests to me that 'plan' wasn't thoroughly thought out, the different parts weren't well coordinated (i.e.: the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing), and it sounds like they hadn't run many people through this, as I take it some of those involved in dealing with the quarantined folks were surprised by some of what happened.
So, the Maldives might be handling things differently a month from now. Or two months. And even if a given dive destination knew it was going to use such a pitiful system, they would not publicize it! So we still wouldn't know (except by further reports).
You brought to mind a follow up question; wonder what live-aboards do to clean up after they get a COVID+ cases? They don't have a lot of unused rooms like some hotels. Respiratory transmission is more a danger than via touching contaminated objects, but still... Plus you've got staff who were in theory exposed.
Speaking of which, and apologies if I forgot this (we're on page 16), what happened to the live-aboard staff? Did they get quarantined and replaced (and if quarantined, were they kept in the same place as the tourists?)? Did the next group arriving to board proceed with their trip? Did that group facing quarantine get an opportunity to speak to the incoming group?
What happens if you arrive for your live-aboard trip, and find out via your smart phone that the boat you're about to get on had a COVID outbreak this past week?
So, the Maldives might be handling things differently a month from now. Or two months. And even if a given dive destination knew it was going to use such a pitiful system, they would not publicize it! So we still wouldn't know (except by further reports).
You brought to mind a follow up question; wonder what live-aboards do to clean up after they get a COVID+ cases? They don't have a lot of unused rooms like some hotels. Respiratory transmission is more a danger than via touching contaminated objects, but still... Plus you've got staff who were in theory exposed.
Speaking of which, and apologies if I forgot this (we're on page 16), what happened to the live-aboard staff? Did they get quarantined and replaced (and if quarantined, were they kept in the same place as the tourists?)? Did the next group arriving to board proceed with their trip? Did that group facing quarantine get an opportunity to speak to the incoming group?
What happens if you arrive for your live-aboard trip, and find out via your smart phone that the boat you're about to get on had a COVID outbreak this past week?
Unfortunately I see this as no different from any hotel, car rental, condo rental, business office, doctor or dentist office, etc. To leave our home we have to place at least some trust that businesses will practice covid appropriate cleaning procedures. In this case I would probably give my own space a little extra personal attention.
More thought, it also means the crew were exposed. Hmmm. That’s tough. Of course they “should” be quarantined but ... I doubt that would even happen here. Maybe in Canada
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