Covid-19 (coronavirus) Updates - Liveaboard Cancellation Policy

[outofofficebrb]

please make sure you come back and reference this operator one way or another. if the result stays the same, i need to blacklist the crap out of them.

I know we have both agreed with each other by and large on a lot of these topics. However, in this case, if the op canceled because they can't operate due to park closures or government restrictions, or because their sailing would only be a few people instead of a full boat of 16+, I think it's fair that a full reschedule is offered and not a refund....Even if @living4experiences canceled on them because they couldn't go, a refund probably would have never been available, either.

 

[outofofficebrb]

I posted this in another thread but wanted to have more eyes on it and get everyone's thoughts as well:

The one liveaboard op that has been dragging their feet for weeks on my group has finally decided to do something but I am still not thrilled with it, granted it is better than just holding onto our money and refusing a reschedule at all...We weren't even asking for a refund. They wanted to wait until this was all over before they would agree to anything.

I am still refraining from saying who it is until this is finalized, or they have decided they aren't budging further. This is their first offer and our sailing was originally for April 1, 2020.

Long story short, we received a group discount for a half charter. A variety of reasons prevented us from going, whether it was the Indonesian government banning travelers from a particular country, a lockdown in our own countries, or the apex of this being the marine park we were due to sail in was closed and the liveaboard could no longer sail. They have finally agreed to a reschedule, but are only offering 80% of the original cost of the trip which has been paid in full by all of us. Long story short, net all the math of our group discounts and the prices of this year's sailing vs next year's, we would have to pay an additional $775 to get back onto the same trip next year if we decide to take this offer. The trip next year is shorter by a day so it's a couple hundred bucks cheaper. I don't even want the difference. Just reschedule us and not make us pay more. I'm not happy about it because we would obviously like a straight reschedule but I acknowledge it is better than what other liveaboards I have been reading about through PM are offering. I have been trying to be as objective as possible in responding to everyone else's posts, but obviously, I have a lot of bias and subjectivity for my own situation so I would love your fresh eyes on this.

To help soften the blow, our agent is offering $200 off for each of us on a future trip booked with him.

Here is what the liveaboard is saying as justification for this. I would love to hear your gut reactions and feedback as objectively as possible. I will hold off on further reactions from me....(Thank you!)

------------

"We made this decision after a long and careful consideration over the past few weeks for the following reason:
As recalled here above free of charge reschedules for all the cancellations is not financially feasible for our company.
How could we possibly ignore the huge cost for us to reschedule about 1/4 of our yearly customers? Not only we expect to have our boats empty for a period of at least months but we’ll have ¼ of our trips filled with non-paying customers in 2021.
Given the fact that we still need to go through all our fixed costs as salaries, marketing, boat maintenance, yearly mandatory dry docking, fuel, just waiting that the situation ends , we will certainly suffer huge losses and eventually have to shut down our business. if the bookings do not resume in the incoming months.
I’d like to emphasize especially about our crew: we have to keep paying their salary since unemployment benefits do not exist in Indonesia. They would be left with zero financial support if we don’t do so. Also, establishing an effective crew on liveaboard take years and they are, after all, the heart of our service.
We are sorry to have to involve our customers in this financial difficulty, however, we won't be able to maintain the standards of safety and service aboard our boats in any other way.
I hope I have clearly explained why we are not able to give any refund or free reschedule and I hope that the guests will find our proposition fair and acceptable.
Many thanks in advance for your understanding,

Best regards,.
XXXXXXXXXX
Managing Director

The terms and conditions of this offer is as follows:
1. non-refundable and can not be redeemed for cash.
2. can not be transferred to other parties/guests.
3. valid for one-time booking only.
4. apply to cruises until 15 September 2021.
5. once made, bookings using this voucher can not be rescheduled further unless cancelled by the operator
6. bookings are subject to availability.
7. this voucher doesn't constitute a debt.
8. this voucher is valid as long as the company is financially able to honor it."

 

[NQtraveler76]

OK, here is the latest from Nautilus:

"In support and compliance with current Covid19 health measures, we have ceased boat operations until further notice. We will start running trips again as soon as it’s safe. For clients affected by the virus, we will be issuing two 50% credit vouchers for the amount paid per berth. For example, if you paid a deposit of $100 and the trip is cancelled because of the virus, we will issue 2 x credits for $50 each. Both vouchers cannot be combined to one berth, but one of the two vouchers can be transferable. Only one voucher can be applied per person per trip. You can apply the vouchers to 2 different trips, different destinations or bring a partner or dive buddy. The credit will expire 24 months from the time it was offered. As the situation is constantly changing, this is what we are offering at this time, and it may change for other guests in months to come.

Our policy towards medical health workers on the front line in this battle is unchanged. As we stated from the beginning, we are issuing 100% credits for affected health workers. This is very personal for us as some of our own spouses are anesthesiologists and medical staff.

If the closure goes on for many months, this is going to really stress our company financially. But we will borrow more capital and find a way through. We can’t wait to start diving again. We will be around for many years to come. Our strength is our crew and staff and they will get looked after no matter what. Everyone needs to be able to feed their family and pay their rent. We are doing our very best for everyone."​

Personally, I think this is a great compromise. But hey, I don't have any skin in this game. How good it is, is up to you.

Mike's hoping to be back in business soon, but he's prepared for this to take a year. He wants to be able to keep his staff and their families eating, and I'm way OK with that. Like I posted before, Mike is a stand up guy. He's not going to make promises he can't keep. He's thinking things through methodically, so that he can continue to keep serving divers and taking them to awesome places safely.

Yeah sorry, this doesn't gel. His operation here in Cairns (run by Craig Stephen now) has stood down all their staff and kept everyone's money stating that all our consumer rights are now null & void. We are out of pocket $3,800+ and we are locals to Cairns! It is an absolute shambles ......

 

[NQtraveler76]

I just joined the forum today because I wanted to see what divers were saying about LB cancellations. My 2 LB trips got cancelled by the operator and there is no refund coming...just a reschedule for future trips. I asked again for a refund and they said no. I will withhold any company information until I get a final resolution. With these awful worldwide events playing out, I am not confident that the LB company will financially survive, and it is abhorrent behavior on the LB company to keep $1 of any of my money if they cannot fulfill their side of the contract. By keeping my money, I am bankrolling their debt, payroll, expenses, and overhead and that is unacceptable!! If these companies don't have enough capital and assets in their business to keep them afloat during a crisis, then they've set themselves up for failure and shame on their owners, and we, as the customers, are not supposed to be their bailout!!

I've only been on one other LB trip (different company) and loved the experience so much that I booked these 2 LB trips. I made my booking directly with the company and paid with a credit card. If you book through a third-party vendor or a dive shop, you're at higher risk of not recovering your money should something bad happen and you need to make an insurance claim. I also always use a credit card (not debit or checks) so I have dispute protection from the credit card company. I always have dive insurance through DAN, then I also purchased travel insurance. I thought I did everything right, yet I find myself fighting for a refund.

One thing I've learned through this experience with travel insurance is that you have to carefully read the "covered reasons" as well as the exclusions. Oftentimes, the exclusions are the longer list of events. Also, in the future, I'll be getting travel insurance within the first 10 days of a trip deposit in order to get the "cancel for any reason" provision and also coverage for "financial default."

We are in the same boat (excuse the pun) and we are locals !
We had a very expensive trip booked with Mike Ball Dive Expeditions, Cairns. (Please note the business is not owned by Mike Ball anymore). They cancelled the trip and have refused to refund anyone for the upcoming trips. We are out of pocket $3,800+ for one trip !

They cited that all customer guarantees are now null & void because of Corona Virus. This is absurd !!! On contacting the Australian Consumer Commission they also confirmed this is not correct. We are entitled to a refund.

A truly terrible experience and service! We cannot believe we have been treated like this, especially being locals!
We feel for you and we are also fighting for a refund! Good Luck

 

[DarwinDogs]

This is indeed very frustrating. Our situation is similar to many of you:
- Trip fully paid for on Tanaka (Komodo, Indonesia) through Liveaboard.com - about $8000 Australian.
- Email from liveaboard.com on 25 March saying the trip is cancelled by operator but we can rebook for a later date if pay a 15% fee
- When challenged they are now saying the trip is not cancelled by the operator; that the operator is still running trips for those who can attend. Even though Komodo National Park is closed, they say they are following that up.

Liveaboard are quoting terms and conditions that were never available on the website or in the correspondence during the booking process.

I appreciate the COVID-19 situation is difficult for all. I'm an emergency department nurse - so very aware of the impact of this disease. I also understand that this situation is difficult on boat operators and even agents. But I think here that both Tanaka and liveaboard.com are not being completely honest, and just looking after number one.

And based on that... would you dive with someone you didn't trust?

Post COVID, when we hit the water again - I won't be booking through such an agent as whenever there is a problem they just say it is the operator's decision and they are 'just an agent.'

Here's to the time where we can breathe through a regulator again instead of an N95 mask... Keep safe everyone.

 

[NQtraveler76]

This is indeed very frustrating. Our situation is similar to many of you:
- Trip fully paid for on Tanaka (Komodo, Indonesia) through Liveaboard.com - about $8000 Australian.
- Email from liveaboard.com on 25 March saying the trip is cancelled by operator but we can rebook for a later date if pay a 15% fee
- When challenged they are now saying the trip is not cancelled by the operator; that the operator is still running trips for those who can attend. Even though Komodo National Park is closed, they say they are following that up.

Liveaboard are quoting terms and conditions that were never available on the website or in the correspondence during the booking process.

I appreciate the COVID-19 situation is difficult for all. I'm an emergency department nurse - so very aware of the impact of this disease. I also understand that this situation is difficult on boat operators and even agents. But I think here that both Tanaka and liveaboard.com are not being completely honest, and just looking after number one.

And based on that... would you dive with someone you didn't trust?

Post COVID, when we hit the water again - I won't be booking through such an agent as whenever there is a problem they just say it is the operator's decision and they are 'just an agent.'

Here's to the time where we can breathe through a regulator again instead of an N95 mask... Keep safe everyone.

DarwinDogs,

That is truly shocking! We completely understand how you feel. We thought that we were protected as we were Australian Customers paying an Australian Operator (and we are), except the operator does not seem to concur. We now need to let the ACCC and legal deal with them ......

We would have preferred if they said there is a 10% cancellation fee and refunded our money.

We are very well connected in the Dive community and boating community here in Cairns ... how could we ever recommend them or trust again

 

[Dan]

We had a very expensive trip booked with Mike Ball Dive Expeditions, Cairns. (Please note the business is not owned by Mike Ball anymore). They cancelled the trip and have refused to refund anyone for the upcoming trips. We are out of pocket $3,800+ for one trip !

That's bad. Sorry to hear that.

I was on Spoilsport once. Pretty good liveaboard. So, who owns Mike Ball Dive Expeditions now?

 

[outofofficebrb]

I'm ready to name who the liveaboard operator is that I have been fighting for some time now. They are firm and refused to budge. We were scheduled to be on the MV Ambai with Wallacea Dive Cruises from April 1-12, 2020. They also own MSY Seahorse. They canceled the sailing because of Raja Ampat marine park closing during the dates that we would have sailed. They refused to commit to a resolution in the beginning because they needed to see what was possible financially when it was over. My agent helped push for something. We had a half charter (8 spots) and they are firm on only offering 80% credit for a trip that was paid for 100% in full. I can't stress how wrong this is and how disappointed and angry I am.

If you have a booking with them 121+ days from now and are worried about them having to cancel on you due to current events, I would cut your losses now so you don't end up in the same situation. Their cancellation policy states: "If the reservation is canceled 121 days or more prior to the departure date then a 100 EUR cancellation fee per person per booking will be deducted from the deposit and the remaining amount returned or credited against any future bookings." Their usual deposit amounts are 20% so you can get back your 20% deposit less 100 EURO. Booking terms and condition with Wallacea Dive Cruise

For more details, please scroll down to my posts on this page: Cancelled/postponed trips due to COVID - please share your outcomes

 

[Cert1967]

I'm ready to name who the liveaboard operator is that I have been fighting for some time now. They are firm and refused to budge. We were scheduled to be on the MV Ambai with Wallacea Dive Cruises from April 1-12, 2020. They also own MSY Seahorse. They canceled the sailing because of Raja Ampat marine park closing during the dates that we would have sailed. They refused to commit to a resolution in the beginning because they needed to see what was possible financially when it was over. My agent helped push for something. We had a half charter (8 spots) and they are firm on only offering 80% credit for a trip that was paid for 100% in full. I can't stress how wrong this is and how disappointed and angry I am.

If you have a booking with them 121+ days from now and are worried about them having to cancel on you due to current events, I would cut your losses now so you don't end up in the same situation. Their cancellation policy states: "If the reservation is canceled 121 days or more prior to the departure date then a 100 EUR cancellation fee per person per booking will be deducted from the deposit and the remaining amount returned or credited against any future bookings." Their usual deposit amounts are 20% so you can get back your 20% deposit less 100 EURO. Booking terms and condition with Wallacea Dive Cruise

For more details, please scroll down to my posts on this page: Cancelled/postponed trips due to COVID - please share your outcomes

That’s a tough pill to swallow.

As to the 121 day refund - do you think that they would actually refund your money less the cancellation fee - as in actual cash back to you?

If they did not, what avenues would you have to seek enforcement of the contract?

And what would lead you to believe that even the 80% credit could eventually be redeemed for value promised?

“ ... what was possible financially, when it was over.”

It’s over, good luck.

 

[Dan]

I’m not sure even I’ll be in the mood to be in that boat later. There are plenty of choices out there.