Courtesy toward other divers

[Carribeandiver]

I am not a cavediver and marginally a diver at all so this question may be remedial but it is still something I am curious about.​

Do divers respect others' lines and markers? Do cavedivers occasionally take someone else's line markers? Do other divers ever snap a line, dislodge a line or otherwise move the line without trying to repair it?

 

[Meng_Tze]

Do these things happen? Yes, I am sure they do. The line dislodging more than taking other's markers. But I have heard of some main markers being taken.

Proper etiquette, not even cave etiquette, would indicate that if you by accident move a line, dislodge a tie off, see an issue with the line that you try to repair if it can cause navigation errors. I.e line is broken. This can be a simple tie in to both broken ends.

Dis placement I would not try to repair per se. It is still a continuous line. In either case tell the management of the system of the situation.

As for taking markers. That is a definite no-no. I have heard of some main line marker being taken off. Other people's markers is an even more dangerous thing..... you take their navigation abaility in times of need. it may make them turn the wrong way.......


So NO do NOT touch any navigation aids in caves. If a line is boken, only then you try to fix (there could still be others in the system needing to come out in a black out). In any case, you tell the people who manage the system.

 

[Henryville]

Cave diving is one of the most training-intensive diving activities there is. There are numerous techniques, protocols, rules, etc. that a properly trained diver masters on their way to certification. These include line protocols, proper swimming technique to avoid damaging the cave or disturbing lines, etc.

With the diving techniques practiced, there wouldn't very often be a case where a line would be unintentionally dislodged. If that happened, it would be the person doing so's responsibility to put the line back in a safe placement. It might be necessary to reposition another team's poorly placed line for safety, but generally speaking you keep your hands off of other peoples' lines unless there is a saftey issue.

Breaking a line and leaving it broken, removing line markers, this kind of thing is like taking parts off of my car's brakes without me knowing about it. You would be jeopardizing my and my team's lives. If someone was found to have done this, there would be a serious discussion (beat-down) and the caving community would very likely ostracize the individual responsible.

 

[BabyDuck]

in class, you're instructed to leave others' stuff alone the best you can, and to put yours where it won't be in anyone's way. just like anything else, i'm sure some folks listened better than others, but it is definitely an agenda item.

systems have line committees you can report problems to ('i was entangled & i cut the line at ___. i didn't have time or supplies to repair it. i'm really sorry.') so they know & can go fix it. some systems will periodically have line clean-ups and remove old personal markers, like if they've been left in a year or whatever.

the worse problem that i've seen is open water divers messing with bottles / reels / tie-offs at the cavern zone. they may not realize that their actions could lead to very serious consequences, but what ever happened to 'if it's not yours, don't touch it'?

 

[metaldector]

"Do divers respect others' lines and markers? Do cavedivers occasionally take someone else's line markers? Do other divers ever snap a line, dislodge a line or otherwise move the line without trying to repair it?"

Short answer: Yes!

Long Answer: Caver's are trained and understand that all lines, markers, etc. are placed in the cave to keep the diver alive! Removal or playing around with someone's marker could cause death. Fortunently, most cave divers respect the cave environment, and all other divers. They for the most part will never knowingly tamper with lines, arrows or other markers.
Are there cave divers out there somewhere who don't respect these things? Yes, a recent example was someone writing in the mud on the cave floor, deep inside the cave in North Florida. Why someone felt the need to disturb this fragile environment is beyond most of our comprehension. Our mantra is, Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but bubbles.

 

[OWSI176288]

I am not a cavediver and marginally a diver at all so this question may be remedial but it is still something I am curious about.​

Do divers respect others' lines and markers? Do cavedivers occasionally take someone else's line markers? Do other divers ever snap a line, dislodge a line or otherwise move the line without trying to repair it?

I was taught the following on my way to becoming full cave certified:


(1) do not disturb another team's line/marker(s).
(2) run you line, so as not to disturb other lines.
(3) do not use another team's reel/line without prior permission.
(4) all things being equal, exiting team has right of way.

and:

(5) personal directional markers should not contradict existing navigational information. (i.e. use non-directional cookies for this if possible).

(7) fix all undone or loose placements.
(6) attempt to repair (and report) broken lines.

 

[Meng_Tze]

(7) fix all undone or loose placements.

there is a reason why this is undone / loose...... anyone fixing it may shield the root cause?

 

[Mike Edmonston]

On a similar note, I bring up another issue.

Saturday, we had just finished a fairly long dive in the eye, and we were heading out after doing our 30ft deco. My wife was first out, then my partner, then myself on the reel adjusting buoyancy so as not to get "squirted" out of the ear.

As I looked at the entrance, I saw 3 divers wanting to come in. They were level with the tree and one was tying off his reel. one of the scooter divers had his hand out telling us, THE EXITING TEAM, to wait for them to get ready. I pointed to my DECO schedule on my slate and told him that I would like to get to 10ft sometime soon. He literally pushed me aside into the little nookie and then took his sweet time getting into the ear. The third diver in the team (back) was the one running the reel. I waited there for 4 minutes while these geniuses figured out how to untangle the line from their scooters.

Now I was always tought that the EXITING team had right of way, specially since the scooter team wasn't ready to enter anyway.

In the end, I extended my 10ft deco by 10 minutes and increased my surface interval. But I was pretty P!SSED OFF!

A DPV card is not a license to run over other divers. And to those scooter jocks from Saturday, if you ever think of pulling that crap again, I'll be waiting to discuss things with you in the parking lot.

Done ranting

Cheers

Mike

 

[Vayu]

Mike, I am sorry that happened to you. We were diving the ballroom on saturday but stayed out of the eye and ear. As you mentioned exiting divers have right of way. Your post brings up one of the random variables and possible dangers in cave diving which is the other teams in the water. It is a shame ginnie gets so crowded especially with these types of divers. A team that decided to enter a cave with the reel diver in the back of the team is very likely ignoring protocol and really shouldnt be using DPV's in there. The consequences can be anything from lost divers, a change in your deco plan (which happened), and damage to cave environment.

Thanks for posting,

-V

 

[karstdvr]

telling us, THE EXITING TEAM, to wait for them to get ready.

That is a pity and unfortunately it happens all too often.

I would probably add to the "courtesy toward other diver list",that if you want to read the brand of mask I am wearing,you don't have to illuminate it with a HID light.