Correlation between start and end of dive?

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Scott M

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Upstate NY - Lake Champlain
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OK, I've read until I am blue in the face (or maybe it was the scotch) anyway. After reading all the threads I am trying to figure out what makes the way you weight at the start work of the dive work at the end?

From what I understand if properly weighted you will float at eye level at the start of a dive and have to exhale to sink when properly weighted. How does that correlate to the end with 500lbs and being neutral?

I know ideally you should weight test your weight with 500 lbs in the tank and then work from there but if that is not an option. And I have done the math for a proper weighting to start the dive. I am more looking for how one effects the other.

Thanks for any insight
 
Scott M:
OK, I've read until I am blue in the face (or maybe it was the scotch) anyway. After reading all the threads I am trying to figure out what makes the way you weight at the start work of the dive work at the end?

From what I understand if properly weighted you will float at eye level at the start of a dive and have to exhale to sink when properly weighted. How does that correlate to the end with 500lbs and being neutral?

I know ideally you should weight test your weight with 500 lbs in the tank and then work from there but if that is not an option. And I have done the math for a proper weighting to start the dive. I am more looking for how one effects the other.

Thanks for any insight

There are several schools of thought on what is proper, for proper weighting.

Generally speaking, the less weight you have on, the better your buoyancy and trim will be, and the less air you will consume. Therefore most divers try for minimal weighting.

Since compressed air weights about 0.08 lbs per cubic foot, you will be losing weight throughout your dive by exhaling (unless you are diving with a CCR). That equals about a 5 lb swing for an 80 cu ft tank. Since you cannot easily split 5 lbs into halves, we usually round up to 6 lbs, and therefore add 3 lbs to each side of your weight belt or integrated weight pouches to compensate for the weight loss from the gas you will exhale during your dive, if we are adjusting your weighting as of the beginning of the dive.

If you adjust your weighting so that you float vertically at eye level, at the beginning of your dive, without being able to submerge unless you exhale completely, then by adding another 6 lbs, you will be perfectly neutrally buoyant at the end of your dive, when your tank is lighter from being down to 500 psi.

Some divers take it a step further, and they make the weight adjustment while submerged at 15 ft with 500 psi in their tank. This will then also take into account suit compression at the final safety stop. It tends to trim a few more pounds off the weight belt, but the trick is that you cannot let yourself surface until your 3 min safety stop has been completed.

One you get your weighting optimized, then you will find that at the beginning of your dive, that you will need to exhale completely to slowly descend. This is especially true if you did the 15 ft submerged at end of dive adjustment.

Where you then move your optimized weighting to, around your body, will determine your trim in the water. Horizontal is preferred, for most advanced divers. However some divers who have ear clearing problems may need to be more verticle in order to descend and be able to clear their ears.

The difference in your weighting from the beginning of your dive to the end of it will be 0.08 lbs per cu ft of air that you breathe during the dive.
 
You can weight yourself with a full tank, you just need to know how much the gas inside weighs. For example, an Aluminum 80 holds 77.4 cft of air which weighs about 6 lbs. If you for some reason can't bear to stay in the water to do a weight check with 200-300 psi left in your tank, you can just weight yourself with a full tank so you are neutral at around 5-10 fsw and then add 6 lbs...that'll make you neutral with an empty tank.

I don't like the 500 psi @ 15 fsw rule....you need to be neutral with a nearly empty tank...in case crap hits the fan and you need to also be able to slowly control your ascent from 15 ft to the surface, thus I'd say be neutral at around 5-10 fsw.
 
I have seen a diver go down with only 2 lbs in weight. He actually seems proud of it.

If air in an al80 is 6 lbs then that means this guy is naturally negative? Are there people like that?

Would that not be a bad thing? I mean if anything went wrong and he had to ditch his weights, it would not make that much difference, would it?
 
Soggy:
...I don't like the 500 psi @ 15 fsw rule....you need to be neutral with a nearly empty tank...in case crap hits the fan and you need to also be able to slowly control your ascent from 15 ft to the surface, thus I'd say be neutral at around 5-10 fsw.

This is one of several schools of thought on what is "proper" for proper weighting. Soggy has a great point about WHERE in the water column you want to be in final equilibrium.

The choices are:

20 ft

15 ft

10 ft

5 ft

at the surface

Take your pick.
 
The traditional approach for scuba divers has been to be weighted so as to float at eye level at the end of the dive with 500 psi left in the tank and with full lungs. This leaves you approx 4 lbs negative with a full tank at the start of the dive.

The problem is that many new divers kick their feet or move their hands when at the surface and this will screw up the weight calculation and/or make it hard to descend even at the start of the dive without excess weight.

To do it correctly you need to be able to float at eye level without moving anything and this can be a challnege if the diver is not totally comfortable in the water. This is then often aggravated by poor technique in dumping the BC and the trapped air further aggravates the problem of getting down.

The common result is that new divers are then massively overweighted by instructors who want them to get down and get through the check dives as fast as possible. They then dutifully record this excessive "required" weight in their log books and dive for years with poor bouyancy due to being over weighted before they figure it out.

Free divers will often weight themselves in a very similar fashion so that they float at eye level at the surface with full lungs and then sink when they exhale. Depending on the suit used, this results in the free diver being neutral somewhere around 15 ft with full lungs due to suit compression.

The same thing basically holds true for a scuba diver - they will also be neutral at 15 ft with full lungs and 500 psi in the tank at the 15 ft saftey stop which works out very nicely.
 
Paul P:
I have seen a diver go down with only 2 lbs in weight. He actually seems proud of it.

If air in an al80 is 6 lbs then that means this guy is naturally negative? Are there people like that?

Would that not be a bad thing? I mean if anything went wrong and he had to ditch his weights, it would not make that much difference, would it?

It is possible he is personally negative, or that his gear is....he might be using a steel tank or a backplate with a thin wetsuit.

There is never a reason to ditch weight at depth, and if he can't swim up 2 lbs of weight (or even 6), he should be in physical therapy building his legs up. Ditching weight is for the surface only.
 
Scott M:
From what I understand if properly weighted you will float at eye level at the start of a dive and have to exhale to sink when properly weighted. How does that correlate to the end with 500lbs and being neutral?
The ones I've read about usually go on to say, "Add 5-6# if you have a full tank to compensate for what you use during the dive."

I suppose the 500psi at 15' with an empty BC is a place to start, but the trouble is if you have 450 psi and want to do a 10' stop, you will find it a lot of work to keep the stop or control your ascent in that last important 1/2 atm.

So here's one way to do it - estimate the weight you need and go diving. At the end of your dive and after your "safety stop," get to about 10' and hover. Breathe your tank down to ~300 psi and start handing off weights until your BC is empty and you can still maintain that depth.
 
Paul P:
I have seen a diver go down with only 2 lbs in weight. He actually seems proud of it.

If air in an al80 is 6 lbs then that means this guy is naturally negative? Are there people like that?

Would that not be a bad thing? I mean if anything went wrong and he had to ditch his weights, it would not make that much difference, would it?

Yes there are really people like that. Extremely low body fat.

Young, African-American kids tend to be the leanest, from my experience with teaching swimming and scuba. It is a problem for them with learning to swim and swimming comfortably, and with staying warm when swimming. I was the instructor who always took these kids and worked with them either as a group or individually. For swimming, they simply had to pull themselves through the water with more arm strenght, in order to stay on the surface, unlike the relatively fatter caucasian kids, who were floaters.

Whether a person is naturally buoyant, neutral, or negative depends on personal physiology.
 

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