Correct Configuration

[O-ring]

I kind of get the impression that DIR is a bit of a marketing ploy for companies like Halcyon.

There is some marketing there, sure, but even GUE doesn't force you to use Halcyon gear. If you want to change your mind about this, dive with some DIR divers (real ones from WKPP or GUE) and see what they are talking about.

 

[sig]

Actually I was implying that the marketing ploy was from some companies and not GUE itself although I'm sure they want there piece of the American pie as well.

Let's face it they wouldn't train you for free if they didn't get anything out of it.

As to diving with anyone WKPP or GUE, I'd love to but I don't know any one who is around my area. Beside would they dive with me as I am not DIR.

By the way I just asked my LDS to throw on a 7' hose and I will follow the hose routing suggested. Will I throw out my BC and go by another one. Not at the moment.

I'm not trying to wizz on anyone's parade here. I just feel that it is not right to say it's my way or the highway. Opinions are welcome but I hope that because a group says there way is the right way that they don't expect me to run down to the LDS shop and by yet another BC. I have dove with hundreds of different people and none of them looked to be DIR to me and there still ok. Just because your doing it right doesn't mean that you won't have something go wrong. Trust me I know as my other sport is rock climbing. S**t happens. Curious how many GUE individuals would admit that they forgot to turn there valve on. No system is perfect and no system is perfect for one individual.

On another note does DIR use an extension for the isolator valve or is that non DIR.

Thanks for the help and please realize I am just giving one of my opinions. Right or wrong it's just an opinion. Not trying to be a smart a** I just realized someone was going to say something about my rig. Since no one offered the routing for the other inflator I made the logical conclusion to use the left post for the 2nd inflator. By the way I had read several post about BC's including the one where several thought the dual bladder was a bad idea. But there are no recalls from OMS do to accidents so I am sure they are safe. I would however love to hear about any horror stories with them. I am not saying I won't change over someday but am certainly not running out to buy another one anytime soon. That money went to the other Zeagle Tech 50D that should be here this week.

 

[O-ring]

Beside would they dive with me as I am not DIR.

...take a GUE class and dive with them then.

On another note does DIR use an extension for the isolator valve or is that non DIR.

No way, you should be able to reach your valves without an extension. Why add the additional failure point when reaching one's valves and/or isolator is not that hard if properly configured and the person has practiced.

 

[sig]

Thanks a friend was telling me the same thing and I wanted to see if anyone else felt that way about the extension.

I'm not aware of any GUE classes around my area. I will have to ask my LDS in Reno NV or the one in Redding Calif. Are you aware of any in these areas. How much do the classes cost.

When someone does get the class, do you still not dive with them if they don't change their gear over right away. For instance would you not dive with me if I took the class but didn't change my BC.

Thanks

 

[Cave Diver]

Originally posted by sig
By the way I had read several post about BC's including the one where several thought the dual bladder was a bad idea. But there are no recalls from OMS do to accidents so I am sure they are safe.

It seems to be a generally accepted practice, that if you are going to run dual bladders that you should leave the inflator hose for the redundant bladder unhooked. The reasoning behind this is that *IF* your inflator hose had a slow leak on the valve, it could inadvertently cause your redundant bladder to fill with air. If you didnt realize this was happening, you would be constantly trying to dump your primary bladder to no avail, which *COULD* result in an uncontrolled ascent. By leaving the second inflator hose unhooked, you still have the option of orally inflating the redunant bladder if necessary, and you can always hook the inflater back up if the need arose. This however, leads to the discussion of "why dive with something you don't need?" (i.e. an unhooked inflator hose)

Anyone got $.03 change for my nickel?

Dive often, but dive safe.

John

 

[sig]

Cave Diver,

Thanks for the reccomendation. I will be sure to do this.

 

[sheck33]

Originally posted by sig
Hi sheck,


My reasons for the bungeed OMS. From what I have gathered from local divers and from this board the company has a good product. The second reason is after trying it I enjoyed the rig very much. It was comfortable and easy to maintain buoyancy. I liked the bungee because they sped up the deflation and left little room for air pockets to get caught. I personally see air being pushed out as a positive as I'd rather sink and have time to regain my buoyancy than to shoot to the top and have little time to recover and be faced with the bends or an air embolism. As to the second bladder. Well that was a matter of the price is right. I also do not see a large problem with it as I believe in redundancy. For one your right my drysuit is my backup buoyancy device so if a point did fail on the BC at least I'd have my suit. If I did have a stuck inflator I would remove both. Yes it's more work than is necessary but is it a major overkill. Not from what I have gathered. Not yet anyway. I have actually only read about one situation. I'm not sure but I believe it was on a GUE page where they mentioned a deflator pull string getting stuck in a bungee. Which as you pointed out I would still have my back up buoyancy from my suit. If there are other case of problems with these kinds of BC's I'd love to hear about them. I'm always open for change. It may take awhile do to money issues but I am not the kind of person who makes the assumption that my way is the only way.

Just out of curiosity why did you assume I was using the bungee as I don't recall writing that I was. Your not going to try to sell me a Halcyon BC are you. Just kidding. Seriously though, I kind of get the impression that DIR is a bit of a marketing ploy for companies like Halcyon. Although I have nothing against DIR. I have actually been doing my research and I like the taught techniques But unless there is conclusive evidence that my BC has problems does that make my personal choice wrong. If you find me floating face down in the lake you can say yes.

.

Well you wrote 'my reasons for the bungeed OMS', that made me assume you use a bungeed OMS

If you punctuce your bladder with a bungeed BC the bungees will make sure all remaining air is forced out removing any positive bouyancy you might have left by air being trapped inside the BC if it didnt have bungees to force it out. If you need bungees on your BC to compact the BC your bladder is too big. I have tried a bungeed single bladder OMS BC without the bungees and it makes bouyancy control impossible. Needles to say i sold that BC.
I dont know what size BC you are using but i had a 100 lb one until i realized that you'd never need a BC with that much lift.

No, i am not trying to sell you a Halcyon BC i'd like you to try a single bladder lesser capacity wing without the bungees, be it a Halcyon or other brand wing. It is not about brands.

There is more to DIR than just gear, the most important part is your brain. Whether you want to go the GUE way is a choice we al have to make for ourselves.

safe diving

 

[sig]

OK sheck now your confusing me

Actually my BC is a 100lb. Like I said it fit my budget requirement at the time. I know you shouldn't skimp on price but this is the real world. I will eventually purchase a 65lb bladder but I do like the bands so I will probably stick with the OMS. Have there been many punctures in bladders. If you did have a puncture I would think it would be better to get rid of the air so that you can concentrate on your buoyancy with your drysuit instead of trying to keep air in your BC. Seems like to much to worry about if you now have a leaking BC and your drysuit to worry about.

Does DIR say backplate only or do you still dive your Zeagle BC. I have a Ranger myself and if I did get DIR certified I wouldn't want to be stoned for using it. I'm curious, I've read that you only dive with DIR partners. Does that mean that you are not actually DIR if you dive with someone who isn't or if you have a different configuration on occasions. If this is the case would you personally dive with someone who wasn't following the training.

 

[sheck33]

Originally posted by sig
OK sheck now your confusing me

Actually my BC is a 100lb. Like I said it fit my budget requirement at the time. I know you shouldn't skimp on price but this is the real world. I will eventually purchase a 65lb bladder but I do like the bands so I will probably stick with the OMS. Have there been many punctures in bladders. If you did have a puncture I would think it would be better to get rid of the air so that you can concentrate on your buoyancy with your drysuit instead of trying to keep air in your BC. Seems like to much to worry about if you now have a leaking BC and your drysuit to worry about.

Does DIR say backplate only or do you still dive your Zeagle BC. I have a Ranger myself and if I did get DIR certified I wouldn't want to be stoned for using it. I'm curious, I've read that you only dive with DIR partners. Does that mean that you are not actually DIR if you dive with someone who isn't or if you have a different configuration on occasions. If this is the case would you personally dive with someone who wasn't following the training.

I am sorry if i confused you. The whole thing is that GUE also trains for failures that are possible but unlikely to happen. Puncturing your BC is one of those cases.
Although my GF had a BC valve failure a week ago which caused her Zeagle to leak a lot of air. For me a leaking BC would be preferable over a completely empty BC but that is just me.

The BP/wing is the setup you have to use doing their classes yes.
The reasons for standardizing gear can be found on GUE website.
So, if you do any of their classes you will be required to use BP/wing, what you do outside of class is up to you and maybe a potential buddy but if your buddy doesnt like your gear they are free to find someone else. I have stopped using the Zeagle ranger because i like the BP/wing much much better, the Zeagle is not a bad BC but because of the weight placement i found it extremely difficult to achieve a horizontal hover, i also couldnt reach the pockets on the side so they were of no use to me.

as for me, i dont strictly dive with DIR people, i'll dive with anyone as long as i feel they are safe and know what they are doing and their gear is not a complete clusterf**k. So far i have only met a handful of people i refused to dive with, either because of their attitude or some really BAD gearchoices that i felt could jeopardize my safety.

Now if it came to cavediving that would be a different story.
I'd be very picky and except my potential divepartner to be picky as well.
Personally i dont think who you dive with has anything to do with being 'DIR' or not. You are or you are not But that is just my opinion.

 

[SeaGypsy]

Have there been many punctures in bladders. If you did have a puncture I would think it would be better to get rid of the air so that you can concentrate on your buoyancy with your drysuit instead of trying to keep air in your BC. Seems like to much to worry about if you now have a leaking BC and your drysuit to worry about.

Having had a hole in my OMS wings, I can yes it does happen. http://www.scubaboard.com/t11887/s.html
Did you notice that OMS sells a BC patch kit - why do you think that is?

How is it a good idea to have bungees get rid of all the air in you wings? Have you ever tried keeping your buoyancy with just a drysuit? I don't know what the rest of your configurations but if it requires any significant amount of lift I think you'll find this challenging with just a drysuit.