Coroner's report on 2018 Rebreather fatality - Stoney Cove, UK

[clownfishsydney]

Below is a link to an article on my website that I wrote after a friend died from IPE on a dive I organised. In the article there are links to two papers by Dr Edmonds. Carl spent the last years of his life (Carl died last year) trying to find out what caused IPE and how people, especially divers, could avoid it. Hope this is of interest to others. Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site

 

[Hiszpan]

Below is a link to an article on my website that I wrote after a friend died from IPE on a dive I organised. In the article there are links to two papers by Dr Edmonds. Carl spent the last years of his life (Carl died last year) trying to find out what caused IPE and how people, especially divers, could avoid it. Hope this is of interest to others. Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site

Excellent read! I will share it with my dive buddies. I do agree you should head straight for the surface rather than simply turn around and head for exit, even if you are 200m from the shore. My understanding is (before reading Dr Carl's articles) that IPE can be worsened/precipitated by (hard)breathing regulators (by creating a vacuum in the lungs each time we breathe, sucking the liquid into them). I am wondering if removing the reg at the surface rather than swimming to the shore with it (that's what I understand has happened in Carol's case) would be a better option.

p.s. I found a small typo, 'dropsed' instead of 'dropped'.

 

[Fibonacci]

Below is a link to an article on my website that I wrote after a friend died from IPE on a dive I organised. In the article there are links to two papers by Dr Edmonds. Carl spent the last years of his life (Carl died last year) trying to find out what caused IPE and how people, especially divers, could avoid it. Hope this is of interest to others. Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site

Thanks Michael, very interesting papers on this important topic.

While IPE/IPO is starting to become known amongst the SCUBA community, it seems utterly unknown in the skin diving spearfishing community vs Shallow Water Blackout, which at least has had an awareness campaign in Australia.

Mods, maybe we should create a new thread to discuss IPE and keep this Coroner's report thread on-topic?

 

[Shasta_man]

Is it possible to see your air use while diving on Carol's computer? That would be a much more precise way to monitor than just how you feel. Not everyone should do this but it may be helpful for those concerned they may have such problem. Perhaps those people should already not be diving but that is separate question...

 

[clownfishsydney]

Is it possible to see your air use while diving on Carol's computer? That would be a much more precise way to monitor than just how you feel. Not everyone should do this but it may be helpful for those concerned they may have such problem. Perhaps those people should already not be diving but that is separate question...

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Perhaps those people should already not be diving but that is separate question...

Well, THIS IS THE QUESTION!
According to the coroner, if the doctor says that after an IPE episode you are suggested not to dive anymore, then not following his advice is criminal. In the case who originated this thread (Stoney Cove, UK) the advice given to not dive anymore was clear, and it was ignored. The fault is entirely on the diver, who decided to ignore the advice.
The case in Australia looks a bit different, as after the first IPE episode the diver was declared fit to dive again. In this case the error was certainly made by the doctors, and the diver was a victim of that error.
My conclusion here is that, after an IPE episode, one should shut down diving entirely, and possibly also swimming long distances.

 

[dmaziuk]

My conclusion here is that, after an IPE episode, one should shut down diving entirely, and possibly also swimming long distances.

Immersion Pulmonary Edema - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Recurrence for SDPE is cited at 30% ("likely underestimated"). It is associated with co-morbidities and fatalities, and deaths are most frequent in females over the age of 50.

Whereas SIPE in swimmers is associated with extreme exertion and overhydration in males in perfect physical shape.

Doctors' recommendations could well be different if the British guy had other risk factors, and the Australian one did not. And I wouldn't worry too much about surface swimming.

 

[InTheDrink]

My two cents.

1. A GP saying you should or shouldn’t dive again ain’t worth squat in most situations. A proper dive doctor that does a dive medical is much more relevant.

2. In some (not all) cases it just means people will bluff or lie on waivers etc.

Separately Angelo, FYI, I had a near death in 2011 on a CCR crossover course. Was initially diagnosed locally as DCS type 2 (clearly wasn’t) subsequently diagnosed as IPE. Waited 6 months, lots of tests and a more than thousand dives since and zero problems. All on OC mind you - I suspect my case was NPPE - sucking too hard on a near empty loop while descending rapidly and relying on the ADV (my bad).

Upsetting to learn Dr Carl Edmunds passed. We had some dialogue after my incident.

Finally RIP to diver and condolences to his family

 

[InTheDrink]

Below is a link to an article on my website that I wrote after a friend died from IPE on a dive I organised. In the article there are links to two papers by Dr Edmonds. Carl spent the last years of his life (Carl died last year) trying to find out what caused IPE and how people, especially divers, could avoid it. Hope this is of interest to others. Michael McFadyen's Scuba Diving Web Site

Harrowing but excellent account. Thanks for sharing it.

I’ve one point to add for people’s information. In my case I was a goner until a guy on my boat blew hard twice into the O2 mask on my face. This really seems to have saved me.

When your lungs are full of gunk even continuous flow O2 can’t get in there, so blowing hard into the mask (it had two ports) seem to create just enough space in my lungs for the O2 to get into my blood.

I sympathise with Carol as my first words when I surfaced was ‘I can’t breathe’. RIP

 

[Shasta_man]

@clownfishsydney My post was in reference to your report where you noted how the breathing rate was clearly higher than normal at the the beginning and throughout the dive. While such people ideally should not be diving, if they could monitor their breathing rate trend during the dive, they may be able to notice such trends early enough to at least question it and abort the dive. I think it is possible on some computers though not all.