Cool diving fin!!!

[JohnnyC]

You seem to think that you are "right" in regarding what constitutes fun.

What if I told you that freediving ISN'T fun! And I HATE "interacting with the environment in a meaningful way" only a couple minutes at a time! And that you don't know what it means to interact with the environment in a meaningful way! And what if I told you that monofins are stupid!!!

You've pretty much come here and said exactly that with regards to scuba diving, and you expect a warm welcome where we all idolize your fin design as revolutionizing scuba for all, yet only a small percentage of scuba divers actually have a desire to get in the water and swim only in a forward direction continuously for the duration of a dive.

I get it, this is your baby and you think that everyone should embrace it. Sorry dude, not everyone has cute kids.

 

[tursiops]

There is not a lot of crossover, like I said. Most scuba divers know very little about freediving or the equipment.

My 3 categories do not include everyone. I said predominantly, not exclusively. There are people who treasure hunt, but it is not common because it is generally far too expensive, unless just hunting bottles or things fairly common. And there are other activities, they are just not very common (including things like building diving equipment). I know lots of photographers, dive instructors, rebreather/tech divers and even some cave divers. I don't know any treasure hunters (aside from a bottle collector).

Where's your data? You dive with hundreds of divers that have thousands of dives, but they don't take pictures, they don't do tech diving and they don't teach. What do they do? (Note, that if it is a job, then is not recreation and cannot be included here. Everyone works even when the job is no longer fun.)

They swim around, stop a lot, look at things, learn things, count fish, look at topography interesting lighting and wrecks, indulge their curiosity (not their aerobic capacity), some take a point-and-shoot picture now and then but I wouldn't call them "photographers." There are an increasing number of cameras being used, but most often as memory aids and not to take "photographs." They find a bait ball awesome; they do not find defeating a current anything other than a bad experience.

You clearly want to interact vigorously with the ocean....most divers I see want to interact gently and quietly with the full environment...not just the water they are swimming through.

 

[emoreira]

I wouldn't feel safe if I cannot move each leg independently one of the other.

 

[REVAN]

They swim around, stop a lot, look at things, learn things, count fish, look at topography interesting lighting and wrecks, indulge their curiosity (not their aerobic capacity), some take a point-and-shoot picture now and then but I wouldn't call them "photographers." There are an increasing number of cameras being used, but most often as memory aids and not to take "photographs." They find a bait ball awesome; they do not find defeating a current anything other than a bad experience.

You clearly want to interact vigorously with the ocean....most divers I see want to interact gently and quietly with the full environment...not just the water they are swimming through.

You misunderstand. I do all of those thing that the others do you listed above, except that fighting a current is not a bad experience for me. I've actually had some nice dives in conditions where the others were clinging to the rocks. The difference is that I just explore a lot more and take pictures and video with less energy and effort as a result of improved swimming efficiency. There is nothing aerobic about how I dive, and it only appears to be vigorous to you, because from your experiences you know that you'd have to work your ass off to go half my cruise speed.

The whole point is that it makes the diving easier to the point that your diving envelope naturally expands in a way that allows you to do more, experience more and interact with more of the ocean. I can do as much stopping to smell the corals as I want. Nothing new is restricting that. But, I can get to a lot more corals than everyone else. I have more choices. While everyone else is hanging out under the dive boat, I can be 1/2 mile off at the edge of the dropoff checking out the manta.

Anyway, the people I know that have over a thousand dives may do all that stuff you mention, but they also do a lot more. They do a lot of photography. They have done dives to 200-+20 ft. They have been inside wrecks. They also hunt, but most places don't allow hunting on scuba, so that is mainly a freediving thing in most areas. Of these, the photography is the least intrusive equipment option. You can basically just be a sport diver with a camera and have many years of fun as long as you enjoy taking pictures. These days, a point and click camera with a flash is all you really need to get some pretty nice shots. The deep diving, the wreck diving, that all requires a lot of heavy equipment and training and a lot of people just don't want to suit up like that and make those kinds of dives. Outside of researchers, I can't think of anyone who would do a thousand dives for counting fish.

 

[Dave616]

What's it going to cost? (Sorry if I missed it).


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[Eric Sedletzky]

Revan,

I think your fin is brilliant!!!

I actually have seen this footage before. Dan Volker posted something about it and gave it some high merit. Believe it or not, Dan is one of the founders of the DIR movement along with JJ and George Irvine. You have to realize that some of these other zealots have taken all this hovering, back kicking, heli turns, frog kicking, etc. to a religious fervor beyond anything I think those guys in FL ever imagined. 1/4" out of "trim" and the world is coming to an end. I'm sure JJ will be like Jesus someday to some people, if he already isn't.
You also have to realize the makeup of Scubaboard.
So take it with a grain of salt when a handful of these geniuses jump on, they don't have lives except to camp here.
The only reason I'm here is because I used to sell backplates and figured this was a good venue. The only reason I'm still here is because I like to mix it up and I find people some of these people entertaining, that and I have to make a small confession,..I'm an addict...but hey, we all have our vices.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you are. I was making these really cool hand made custom contoured backplates that resembled the old school backpacks except they were 10 GA stainless steel, could take modern wings, were set up for twin cam bands, could use 2" webbing, etc.
They were cut narrow through the sides so the plate would drop down in between the shoulder blades making for a more streamlined profile vastly improving slipstream and speed.
What do you think it was met with? "It's not DIR compliant"..."who needs to go fast"..."the tank will hit me in the back of the head"..."it can't be used with doubles"..."it looks weird"..."the name sounds like a feminine product"..."it's not heavy enough"..."it's not light enough"..."it can't use a STA"..."I can't use my Halcyon wings with it"...blah blah blah...the list goes on.
The only people really interested were the minimalists and a few vintage guys who could understand and appreciate the concept, and those that embrace the art of using the least amount of gear including no BC, and hold the philosophy that less gear and more skill is better and safer than more gear and less skill.
I use a variety of gear, I mostly dive in Northern California and BTW I'm an avid freediver/abalone diver, I'm a minimalist diver (complete bare bones gear like the old days except the gear is all new and modern), and I also dive with a wing and octo when buddy diving just like everybody else. I see nothing but great potential and a hell of a lot of fun with the Dol-fin. Where can I see one, try one, get one?
Not that I would use it all the time, but I see some great potential when the need arises to cover a lot of ground such as Socal bug diving and Halibut hunting. I currently use Picasso freedive fins for freediving and scuba , and jet fins as the scuba workhorse.
BTW you zealots, Jets have been around since 1965, probably longer than most of you have been alive and certainly longer than your silly back up finning, and your goofy feet up foot flipping...

 

[REVAN]

Thanks Eric Sedletzky. I was starting to think that there weren't any others on this forum open to some new concepts in diving technology. I'm always glad to find others who embrace the minimalist philosophy like me.

"...the minimalists and a few vintage guys who could understand and appreciate the concept, and those that embrace the art of using the least amount of gear including no BC, and hold the philosophy that less gear and more skill is better and safer than more gear and less skill." - I couldn't agree more!

What's it going to cost? (Sorry if I missed it)...

I have decided not to manufacture the monofin that is in the video. It was a good design, but at a projected price of almost $900, it is too expensive for scuba divers. I've sold a lot of fins at that price point for freediving, but scuba divers don't assign as high value for propulsion as freedivers (until their fins aren't fast enough and they go spend $5000 on a DPV). As a result, I only made a couple of that model for testing purposes. I made a lot of the freediving version, and continued to search for ways of getting the manufacturing costs down. Last year, I had a breakthrough, and I have been successfully testing a new frame made with half the parts and half the complexity in manufacturing. It uses the same hydrofoil as shown in the video and works the same. Below are some pictures of the new DOL-Fin Pilot2 which will go into production in place of the DOL-Fin X-15 that was being tested in the video.

The MSRP for the Pilot2 is $599, but I'm planning to have an introductory sale price starting down at $499. Since you should dive with a buddy, and no one else will be able to keep up with you unless they also have the foil, I've been toying with the idea of having bargain pricing on bundle orders as well, (i.e. - two Pilot monofins in one order).



This design requires attaching cycling shoes for the foot interface. The shoes are very comfortable and economical, but it excludes the use of a drysuit (which isn't an issue for freedivers). Warm insulating dive socks are no problem, so you can still dive the Pilot2 in cold water, just not in a dry suit with built-in boots.

If it catches on in the scuba market, it can be redesigned to accommodate drysuit diving. I'll take the concept wherever the market influences it. I'm pretty sure that I can even make it go backwards and spin in circles, but it will cost more to make it do that, and in my experience, that capability really isn't necessary for OW sport diving.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Thanks Eric Sedletzky. I was starting to think that there weren't any others on this forum open to some new concepts in diving technology. I'm always glad to find others who embrace the minimalist philosophy like me.

"...the minimalists and a few vintage guys who could understand and appreciate the concept, and those that embrace the art of using the least amount of gear including no BC, and hold the philosophy that less gear and more skill is better and safer than more gear and less skill." - I couldn't agree more!



I have decided not to manufacture the monofin that is in the video. It was a good design, but at a projected price of almost $900, it is too expensive for scuba divers. I've sold a lot of fins at that price point for freediving, but scuba divers don't assign as high value for propulsion as freedivers (until their fins aren't fast enough and they go spend $5000 on a DPV). As a result, I only made a couple of that model for testing purposes. I made a lot of the freediving version, and continued to search for ways of getting the manufacturing costs down. Last year, I had a breakthrough, and I have been successfully testing a new frame made with half the parts and half the complexity in manufacturing. It uses the same hydrofoil as shown in the video and works the same. Below are some pictures of the new DOL-Fin Pilot2 which will go into production in place of the DOL-Fin X-15 that was being tested in the video.

The MSRP for the Pilot2 is $599, but I'm planning to have an introductory sale price starting down at $499. Since you should dive with a buddy, and no one else will be able to keep up with you unless they also have the foil, I've been toying with the idea of having bargain pricing on bundle orders as well, (i.e. - two Pilot monofins in one order).

View attachment 205822View attachment 205823

This design requires attaching cycling shoes for the foot interface. The shoes are very comfortable and economical, but it excludes the use of a drysuit (which isn't an issue for freedivers). Warm insulating dive socks are no problem, so you can still dive the Pilot2 in cold water, just not in a dry suit with built-in boots.

If it catches on in the scuba market, it can be redesigned to accommodate drysuit diving. I'll take the concept wherever the market influences it. I'm pretty sure that I can even make it go backwards and spin in circles, but it will cost more to make it do that, and in my experience, that capability really isn't necessary for OW sport diving.

I seriously doubt it will be used with people in drysuits. Drysuit people tend to be the hovering type that like to slowly move along doing their feet-up foot flipping kicks, it's a whole different style of diving. There is no crossover or relation to skindiving techniques. Drysuits, unless they are the body fit neoprene type, are baggy and most of them have big thigh pockets. Above anything more than a slow cruise they will exponentially increase drag and then there's the added effort to overcome that drag. I think the Dol-fin is way to fast for drysuits personally. But they make some really slick wetsuits, like the skin-in freediving suits. I'm using a Yazbeck right now for free and scuba. Our waters are in the high 40's low 50's year around.
I think $600 for a piece of technology like that is about right.
I know some will balk at the price, but yet they will go out and spend $2500 on a drysuit w/ undergarments, $1500 on a can light, and upward of $4000 to $5000 for a top of the line scooter, and a lot of them will never even see a cave or a wreck.
I also see a drawback for recreational divers using jacket style BC's. Jackets are another source of drag but most people will argue the fact that have them saying there isn't any difference between jackets and something slicker in profile. But those people never used anything to propel themselves fast enough to find out. People who use freediving fins for scuba are the ones who discover this fact because they are capable of touching on speeds where some gear choices begin to show their deficits in hydrodynamics.
Before someone could get full use out of the Dol-fin they would have to possibly rethink their scuba gear configuration, IMO.

I could see this as a thrilling fin to use in Tahoe.

Where about are you located BTW?

 

[REVAN]

I'm in Tucson, AZ. I do a lot of my diving across the border in San Carlos, MX.

I agree a drysuit is inappropriate with gear like this. Once I discovered open-cell Yamamoto-45 neoprene freediving suits, I sold my dry suit. For cold water diving, I have a 6mm open-cell with super-stretch on the outside that is warmer, more comfortable and significantly faster than my old drysuit (and less than half the price too). I can probably be in 50 degree water all day without getting cold (though I haven't actually done more than 2.5 hours at any one time). However, there are some new drysuit designs that are less draggy, and like I said, I can make it if there are enough customers who want it.

This is a different kind of diving, one might even say it is really different sport. Once you have propulsion that can go fast and do it efficiently, you discover the other parts of your kit that are holding you back. Those parts become a liability and the natural response will be to modify and minimize, or eliminate the liability.

I have plans on the drawing board for a fundamental redesign of the scuba diver's architecture, that would heavily leverage drag reducing technology. I have calculated that if I were to go ahead and build this system, 20Km range in 4 hours underwater is attainable. In theory, you could reach any site that is within 5 Km of a shore dive access point in less than an hour, spend about 2 hours diving/exploring sight and then return to shore, all without need for a dive boat. This is an extreme evolution of the system, not the fairly basic system shown in the previous videos, and I don't know if I will ever get around to building it, but it's fun to think about it and contemplate the possibilities.

 

[Dave616]

I would demo one; looks like it could be fun. Looking forward to reading reviews.


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