Continued Carbon Monoxide - Cozumel

[DandyDon]

On a recent liveabord trip in Egypt my Pocket CO was getting several readings of 7-8 ppm CO. I mentioned this several times to the guides and asked them to check the intake and asked to see the compressor.

I never got to see the compressor but they did *something* and the readings I got thereafter were 0-1 ppm.

So just having the tester with me was enough to get them to fix the problem, whatever it was. So carrying the device can definitely be worthwhile. And as a point to note the device (pocket co) was at 0 before placing it in the bag of tank gas an did return to 0 shortly after taking it out of the bag with the tank gas in it so there wasn't any cross contamination.

J

I bet Pocket CO would love to have that in an email. pocket_support@kwjengineering.com if you'd like to or OLIVER@kwjengineering.com is the engineer I call about things.

I insist on touring compressors when they are on premises or onboard nowadays. Good job there.

I wonder a little about what other divers onboard think when they see me testing, like are they wondering if they should be as well, or are they so naive as to not know of the unseen risk? Some rationalize that if my tank is okay, then theirs must be too - but compressor outputs can vary quickly. I know two Coz operators who erroneously believe that electric compressors cannot produce CO; scary that I know more than they do about this.

One thing I like about the Pocket CO is that a diver who is not yet convinced enough to spend $300-400 on a kit can get that one complete with calgas and test bag for $200. I did send Oliver a missive last week mentioning a few points we would like to see fixed if possible. Next week, I'll send them my water destroyed tester to see if they will fix it under the "$79, this service includes a full inspection of your instrument, calibration and testing, new battery, firmware update, and new CO sensor element if needed," or if I need to buy a new one @ $140? I also like having various brands going onto boats for a variety of comparisons. US-UK postage is a little higher but not terribly; I have purchased things from the UK. Oddly, US-Hong Kong postage is cheaper than across Texas.

 

[tonka97]

Thanks Dandy Don for continued CO concerns and awareness.

I am checking every tank with the Analox CO monitor!

A small price to pay for a vital piece of equipment.

 

[swamp diver]

On a recent liveabord trip in Egypt my Pocket CO was getting several readings of 7-8 ppm CO. I mentioned this several times to the guides and asked them to check the intake and asked to see the compressor.

I never got to see the compressor but they did *something* and the readings I got thereafter were 0-1 ppm.

J

One of my dive buddies had a similar issue on a blue-chip liveaboard in Indonesia two winters ago. When they first arrived on board the compressed air and nitrox had CO in the range of 15 to 25 ppm in each and every tank. He asked to see the compressor room and could see that the issue was two fold.

Firstly the room was very small with no ventilation and for noise reasons they kept the door shut which lead to the compressor overheating. Secondly there was no catalyst in the filter to convert the CO produced from burning of the compressor oil into CO2.

In order to salvage the trip they had the operator leave the door open at all times and to try to only pump when it was cooler outside. This resulted in the CO concentration falling to 0 to 5 ppm for the balance of the trip. Each and every tank was checked for the duration of the trip. The company's owner was notified after the first day but seemed uninterested in the problem. I'm sure it was back to business as usual once our group had departed.

If a boat's operator won't show you the compressor room what does that say about the operation? What have they got to hide?

 

[InTheDrink]

Swampdiver - yeah, I did wonder myself although they didn't seem untrustworthy people but of course this says nothing of the owners/op. My main beef with this op was having some divers on board with so little experience as to impact the dives we did. Very annoying that. I'll b using blue 0 two next time. But I digress ... Agree 100% - probably back to business as usual after our trip. Operators seem to have a bizarre fixation on cutting costs in areas that make no sense - tank o-rings are another example of things some ops pointlessly scrimp on and that can't possibly make a difference to their bottom line.

Don, I'll ping the Pocket CO people during the week, thanks for the contact details.

J

 

[DandyDon]

I have been thinking about posting from the PMs I received from the Coz operator, who gave me permission to post his PMs, but refuses to post openly. What's wrong there? I have decided to only summarize some points; make of it what you will...

He claims to also be an expert in industrial gas analysis, but does not claim to have ever tested a tank of scuba air on Coz...?

He does a lot of business with the primary fill station which supplies many operators on the island, but I do not know any other details about his business relations?

He thinks that electric compressors cannot produce CO which is simply very wrong and makes me wonder about other possible problems in his thinking and operations.​

I had hoped to dive with this Op in the recent past but now wouldn't get on his boat for anything. I am really shaken by this as I had thot he had a good head on his shoulders, but find myself with much doubt now.

It was really unfortunate that I damaged my CO tester but lucky we had another SB diver onboard most days who had one of a different brand - which agreed with my day one findings and continued to find bothersome CO readings in all other tested tanks. I understand why he does not want to post here, but he is supplying me with info that I think safe to believe. He is also home now and tested his tester against his calgas and on home tanks - finding it to be right on the money in calgas testings @ 10 ppm, while his home tanks tested 3 ppm - a result worth mentioning to his local compressor.

Now I feel very lucky to have survived the 17 ppm tank I dived, but very happy I refused to dive the deeper site we really wanted to do. At least I have a pony with less than 10 ppm but my bud didn't.

Once again, these experiences can be expected possible almost anywhere in the Latin America and Caribbean Area, as very few compressors are running inline monitors to my knowledge across the LACA - none on Coz, and no operators anywhere I know of have personal testers for spot checking - and that is insulting to me that they care so little about our safety as long as they get our money.

Every compressor needs an inline CO monitor which cost pennies a tank!

Every Op needs a personal tester for spot checking.

And every diver who owns his/her own equipment needs to have and use his/her own CO tester so they can't keep ignoring us.​

thank you

 

[cruiser]

I have been thinking about posting from the PMs I received from the Coz operator, who gave me permission to post his PMs, but refuses to post openly. What's wrong there? I have decided to only summarize some points; make of it what you will...

He claims to also be an expert in industrial gas analysis, but does not claim to have ever tested a tank of scuba air on Coz...?

He does a lot of business with the primary fill station which supplies many operators on the island, but I do not know any other details about his business relations?

He thinks that electric compressors cannot produce CO which is simply very wrong and makes me wonder about other possible problems in his thinking and operations.
​

I had hoped to dive with this Op in the recent past but now wouldn't get on his boat for anything. I am really shaken by this as I had thot he had a good head on his shoulders, but find myself with much doubt now.

It was really unfortunate that I damaged my CO tester but lucky we had another SB diver onboard most days who had one of a different brand - which agreed with my day one findings and continued to find bothersome CO readings in all other tested tanks. I understand why he does not want to post here, but he is supplying me with info that I think safe to believe. He is also home now and tested his tester against his calgas and on home tanks - finding it to be right on the money in calgas testings @ 10 ppm, while his home tanks tested 3 ppm - a result worth mentioning to his local compressor.

Now I feel very lucky to have survived the 17 ppm tank I dived, but very happy I refused to dive the deeper site we really wanted to do. At least I have a pony with less than 10 ppm but my bud didn't.

Once again, these experiences can be expected possible almost anywhere in the Latin America and Caribbean Area, as very few compressors are running inline monitors to my knowledge across the LACA - none on Coz, and no operators anywhere I know of have personal testers for spot checking - and that is insulting to me that they care so little about our safety as long as they get our money.

Every compressor needs an inline CO monitor which cost pennies a tank!

Every Op needs a personal tester for spot checking.

And every diver who owns his/her own equipment needs to have and use his/her own CO tester so they can't keep ignoring us.
​

thank you

Don--

Pushing the 'thanks' button just isn't enough here.

If I had doubts about the need for my own personal CO tester, I don't anymore. It's not a luxury, it's a necessity. And I'm not speaking for just Cozumel, but anywhere I go to dive (Bahamas, Aruba, Roatan), even to test my tanks here at home from my LDS.

 

[DandyDon]

Don--

Pushing the 'thanks' button just isn't enough here.

If I had doubts about the need for my own personal CO tester, I don't anymore. It's not a luxury, it's a necessity. And I'm not speaking for just Cozumel, but anywhere I go to dive (Bahamas, Aruba, Roatan), even to test my tanks here at home from my LDS.

Thanks, and yeah - since so few providers are doing anything, it really is. US shops are more likely to have Analox inline monitors but checking home tanks is good practice as well as a safety for the one in a million mistake - as you don't see the tank filled and the monitor working at the time.

I think much of this goes back to the sport developing before we could check, with DAN just never playing catch up for whatever reasons - with corporate support being a suspicion. We know that Padi isn't going to do jack ~!@## and they are even doing less now than before. Then since scuba deaths are rare, even tho CO deaths are easily hidden in other countries, they must be a smaller number - but what !@#$% number is acceptable for this preventable risk, even tho there is no other way to test - but inline testing is pennies a tank?! I got to wonder if the Coz station is avoiding an inline monitor to avoid production interruptions. I can't read minds but I was appalled at the lack of knowledge or caring from the Op there I used to want to dive with.

 

[Qnape]

Like many others I have read with interest the threads concerning the lack of CO testing. It caught my eye if nothing else because of the link to Cozumel, where we will be heading again in February 2011. I bet you feel to some degree like a man on a mission - one that has relevancy to all but is ignored by the vast majority. I am certain a lot of folks have somewhat uncomfortably decided to look the other way (turn the other lung?).

You are performing a valuable yet apparently thankless service to all divers in bringing a spotlight to this issue. It deserves consideration from everyone involved, and I will continue to read related threads for developments. Ideally, I think this should be addressed by PADI, DAN, or other organization / stakeholders in the dive industry. Is there some way to provide value / even brownie points to Ops who obtain their gas only from filling stations they confirm make use of an in-line CO monitor? Make it a PADI 6th (or Nth - not sure hom many they use) gold Palm? I could see it as an advertising point, particularly for liveaboards. Who, given knowledge and the choice, would not prefer a liveaboard / dive Op who demonstrates care over such a basic and potentially critical safety matter as CO prevention over one who did not? After all, we as divers pay attention when the dive Op / liveaboard states that it carries a DAN o2 kit, marine radio, and other safety equipment on board (or I do, anyway).

In the meantime, I too will consider a solution to implement myself - although nothing out there looks like an ideal, simple solution yet. Thank you for your efforts!

 

[DandyDon]

I don't think that the US Coast Guard has approved inline CO monitors on liveaboards with compressors, if I remember correctly - insane, but too much to try to change at once?

I'll still test every tank tho, as I won't be present when the tank is filled or the inline monitor serviced - but inline monitors and personal testers are both part of the initial solution I think.

 

[cruiser]

Being an empty nester at this point in my life, I travel to dive destinations with friends, or hook up with them there.

However, there are many families who go on scuba diving vacations. Not only would your personal CO tester assure you of your air quality, but that of your spouse and kids. Where family is concerned, people tend to have a lower comfort level regarding carbon monoxide in a tank. I personally may choose to dive with a questionable CO level, but no way are my kids going to.