Confused about BCD type choice- Help needed

[Puffer Fish]

Thanks a whole lot for all of the answers. All the answers support me to buy a BP/W BCD. That is really great I now feel more confident about starting to set up my BP/W set.

Bubbletrubble, I will look up for Hogarthian harnesses. Thanks for your assistence. I will go check deep sea supply as you suggested.

Boulderjohn, you are perfectly right about your assuption of what I tried to ask. You made me more clear. Thank you.

I do not understand one point. Why do I need to buy a a wing for single tanks. Is it not possible to buy a wing for doubles and use it with a single tank adapter?

I know need to know how can I buy all parts inexpensive. I am not a rich guy so I cannot spend hundreds of dollars on a BP/W bcd. I must chose the brands and prices carefully. What do you suggest? Thare are harnesses for 65 bucks and goes upto as much as 500 bucks. What makes the difference for the price difference? Quality? It’s the same for the backplates and wings also.

And what I really need to buy for to set up a BP/W type bcd. I know I need an harness, a backplate, a wing (double tank ones would do the job because I think that I can use it with a single tank adapter as I ask above), backpad and shoulderpad.

What are the best brands in terms of price and performance?

Thank you.

Single wings are smaller and fit around the tank... doubles wings are made to fit around, well doubles and are much wider. If you buy a doubles wing and use a single tank, the wing will not be stable with any air in it. TS&M is right on.

Which to buy to buy will become a huge argument, as will what is the best harness.

You need to spend a bit of time learning who makes what and what the best style is for you (the down side of a BP/W) if you want to get the right gear at the best price, and then look for sales.

Some of this depends on what sort of rec diving your are going to do.

If you are diving with a wetsuit on, the back pad and shoulder pads may not be needed. Kind of nice though, if you are diving from shore and wearing just a skin, so location is important. (and you can add them later in any case).

You can put together a pretty fancy one for around $300 if you are a very careful shopper.

 

[TSandM]

Doubles wings are constructed with a wide center panel, to accomodate the twin tanks. This is not necessary with a single tank, and as a result, the air bladder will fold up on either side of the tank (the "taco" effect). The reason this is bad is that it then puts the air in the side arcs (which is where air sits during the dive) a long way from your inflator hose takeoff, or your rear dump. Thus the wing is difficult to vent, requiring large excursions from trim to move air around. Trying to buy one wing for single tanks and doubles is false economy.

Recognize that, if you go to diving doubles, a new wing will be one of the smallest expenses you will run into -- you have to buy the tanks with bands and manifold, and a second first and second stage regulator. If your budget is as limited as you describe, then transitioning to doubles or to any kind of technical diving will be a ways off, financially.

There are any number of good manufacturers of backplate and wing systems. If you are really trying to keep your costs to a bare minimum, watch for sales, and look for used equipment. We have bought three backplates in the last few weeks on the used market (setting up equipment for students) paying between half and three quarters of the new price.

Keep your setup simple. Unless you routinely dive with no exposure protection at all, you won't need padding, and you don't need any kind of fancy harness. If you buy a wing with tank stabilizers, like the DSS ones, you won't need an STA (cuts costs). You WILL need a weight belt, and may need camband weight pouches, depending on how much weight you need to carry and where you need it for trim.

Make sure the wing size you buy is appropriate for your application. Single tank wings can vary from 40 or more pounds of lift, to 17. How much lift you need is a function of your exposure protection and the tanks you dive. The more precisely you choose the wing for your needs, the easier it will be to vent, and the more streamlined it will be. Similarly, the choice of plate material is made on the basis of how much total ballast you need.

A backplate setup can be put together inexpensively, but it will take some legwork on your part.

 

[SangP]

Doubles wings are constructed with a wide center panel, to accomodate the twin tanks. This is not necessary with a single tank, and as a result, the air bladder will fold up on either side of the tank (the "taco" effect). The reason this is bad is that it then puts the air in the side arcs (which is where air sits during the dive) a long way from your inflator hose takeoff, or your rear dump. Thus the wing is difficult to vent, requiring large excursions from trim to move air around. Trying to buy one wing for single tanks and doubles is false economy.

Recognize that, if you go to diving doubles, a new wing will be one of the smallest expenses you will run into -- you have to buy the tanks with bands and manifold, and a second first and second stage regulator. If your budget is as limited as you describe, then transitioning to doubles or to any kind of technical diving will be a ways off, financially.

There are any number of good manufacturers of backplate and wing systems. If you are really trying to keep your costs to a bare minimum, watch for sales, and look for used equipment. We have bought three backplates in the last few weeks on the used market (setting up equipment for students) paying between half and three quarters of the new price.

Keep your setup simple. Unless you routinely dive with no exposure protection at all, you won't need padding, and you don't need any kind of fancy harness. If you buy a wing with tank stabilizers, like the DSS ones, you won't need an STA (cuts costs). You WILL need a weight belt, and may need camband weight pouches, depending on how much weight you need to carry and where you need it for trim.

Make sure the wing size you buy is appropriate for your application. Single tank wings can vary from 40 or more pounds of lift, to 17. How much lift you need is a function of your exposure protection and the tanks you dive. The more precisely you choose the wing for your needs, the easier it will be to vent, and the more streamlined it will be. Similarly, the choice of plate material is made on the basis of how much total ballast you need.

A backplate setup can be put together inexpensively, but it will take some legwork on your part.

Absolutely agree, get what you NEED not what you WANT! No singles wing will work well with a doubles setup n a doubles wing will really look and feel out of place with a singles setup.

This is a great deal:
BackPlate and Wing Package reviews and discounts, Dive Rite

If you really want a do it all rig then a side mount is for you but that's trying to fix a problem that doesn't exists n getting a whole lot more then what you asked for.

SangP

 

[impulse]

Thanks for the answers. So how can I calculate how much lifting power do I need on a wing? I use a 10mm two piece wetsuit and if this is a factor, the coldest water I dive is around 64,4 F / 18 C and the warmest is around 78,8 F/26 C. That's Aegean Sea and Mediterranean area. I use 8 kg/ 17lb weights and I am 76kg/167,8 lb. When I go diving with the diving school, I use their BCD's and medium size fits me perfectly. I usually use a single 12 liter tank.

Sangp, is that setup's price really reasonable? Do you think that is that a good setup?

TSandM, you are really right about your budget assuptions consedering the tech diving. But I am trying to keep the cost as minimum as possible. I am saving money for the DSAT courses, the tech diving computer and for the extra regs. Diving seduced me and this cannot be reversed

I heard that there are doubles wings that has ropes on it to put the extra large wings togather for the singles so that it's size and volume becomes virtually smaller. How effective is that?

Thank you.

 

[TSandM]

It sounds as though you'd probably need a 30 lb wing, based on your exposure protection. You need to be able to add lift to compensate for what your suit loses at depth. A 7mm suit, I have seen assessed as being able to lose about 23 lbs of lift, so I would assume a 10 mm suit (never heard of this!) as probably being more like 30.

The use of the bungied wings is controversial. They can cause you to lose more gas if you have a puncture. They can also cause gas trapping, as the wing surface inside is no longer smooth, so gas can get caught in the "pouches" that occur as a result of the bungie compression. They also make the outer surface of the wing rough, which increases drag. Most importantly, they are not necessary, if the wing is properly sized.

Even with the bungies, if you try to use a doubles wing with a single tank, you are having to cope with the wide center panel. Seriously -- I know you're trying to avoid spending money twice, but don't do this. If your money is that limited, you're going to have a hard time affording technical training, and even more, a hard time doing technical diving after you're trained. Tech diving ain't cheap!

 

[Martini]

TSandM is right. For now buy a wing that is suited for single tank diving. a wing with 30 lbs of lift is about average. When you do transition to techinical diving you can buy suitable a doubles wing and in the scheme of things it will be cheap. Spend the money on the right wings from the get go. If you need to save money you can do without a tech computer for a long time. She is also correct in saying if money is an issue than tech diving may be be the best path for you. It is not for the faint of wallet.

 

[impulse]

I know tech diving is not cheap. So I am planing to gather up all the equipment I need for tech diving in a long period of time. As much as I know, I need 4 regs and doubles wings. Tech diving computer can stay a side for a while. I can do the decompression calculations on the pc and write them down and carry them with me water sealed. What more do I need? I am not yet trained about that. The only thing I know is to go deeper without oxygen toxicity or nitrogen narcosis is learning tech diving. Do you know another way? Maybe I must learn the limits better? Maybe I wont need to learn tech diving? What do say?

I can obtain the tanks from the diving school so I do not need to buy tanks. My teacher at the diving school is a very well trained technical diver. He has all the equipment yet he does not carry them around to the diving trips so I cannot try them. I try to go diving at least once a month. I need to go 10-12 hours on the bus to reach the convenient places for diving. And we go as a group and the teacher carries around lots of equipment for the students. So I cannot ask him if he can carry an extra tech bcd for me try among all that lots of other stuff.

I dream about learning tech diving and having it as my job if I can. And also there are places that I really die to dive. Some shipwrecks, like the Yolanda Wreck, Blue Hole etc...There are lot's of places I must dive and feel those places. The only way to do that is learning tech diving. No other way. Sad but true, expensive but must be done. I think this is called passion At least I will try and see. But well that's a long way to go. I think I need more than 5 years to reach that level.

 

[TSandM]

impulse, most of your questions will be answered by your technical instructor. It sounds as though you have someone available to you to do some mentoring, who has been there and knows the drill, and such people are very valuable.

Get your singles setup, get your skills sorted out (watch the 5thD-X videos on YouTube for examples) and then contact your prospective technical instructor for advance on further gear acquisitions.

 

[boulderjohn]

I dream about learning tech diving and having it as my job if I can. And also there are places that I really die to dive. Some shipwrecks, like the Yolanda Wreck, Blue Hole etc...There are lot's of places I must dive and feel those places. The only way to do that is learning tech diving. No other way. Sad but true, expensive but must be done. I think this is called passion At least I will try and see.

What do you mean by tech diving being your job? Other than instructing, there are not a lot of jobs that are really tech diving jobs. Commercial diving is something else, of that is what you mean.

Are you referring to leading technical dives?

If that is what you meant by referring to the Jolanda, well, I don't know for sure, but I can't imagine there are a lot of openings for that sort of work. In the case of the technical wreck diving I know of, the divers are not interested in guides. They just want a boat that will get them to the site. (I honestly don't know a whole lot about diving the Jolanda.)

On the other hand, I do know something about the Blue Hole (I assume you mean the one in Belize.). Thousands of recreational divers go there every year, and they are led by divemasters in recreational gear, most of whom have no technical diving training. This is similar to other places, like Chuuk, where guides take recreational divers through the WWII wrecks every day. In other words, there is work to be had working at recreational depths.

 

[impulse]

What do you mean by tech diving being your job? Other than instructing, there are not a lot of jobs that are really tech diving jobs. Commercial diving is something else, of that is what you mean.

I mean commercial diving. That would be the job that suits me. Like working as a diver at the dams or some sort of underwater construction. This is just a thought tough. Not something I can done at the near future. But why not?