Concerns about dive center and buying gear

[RJP]

The budget question really bugs me. You are buying critical life support equipment for an environment in which you cannot survive for a minute without it. How do you put a price on that? This is not a sport for penny pinching. .

Let's not get carried away here...

Are we to assume that you have purchased the most expensive regs available?
Are we to assume that there is a relationship between price and the ability of scuba gear to keep you alive?

 

[GW06]

Let's not get carried away here...

Are we to assume that you have purchased the most expensive regs available?
Are we to assume that there is a relationship between price and the ability of scuba gear to keep you alive?

No not at all. My point, as I said, is that I am far more concerned about the performance of the equipment than its cost. I have purchased the gear that best serves my needs. I did not say that only the most expensive gear is good. But buying a reg based on budgetary concerns rather than quality/durability/performance just doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

 

[covediver]

OK, so the owner is taking time to show you the gear and giving you the pitch about carrying only the best gear. Would you have felt better if he had ignored you and told you that the shop carries second-rate gear and to go somewhere other than his store? Interesting business model. I worked in a dive shop so I chuckle when I heard statements of the suspicious intent on the part of scuba diving sales people.

Most dive shops have a flagship brand, its usually Aqualung or Scubapro, followed by boutique brands like Atomic. Some will carry a second line of lower cost yet completely functional equipment. Scubapro even when so far as to create a lower priced line as part of its business plan.

Apex/Aqualung/Suunto are all good products, they are also owned by the same company if memory serves. I have several regulators made by the companies going back to my conself 14 and my current Apex for cold water diving up here in Alaska. All good equipment. That said, I also have a scubapro regulator and backmount bc (bpw) and like it just as much. As long as you take good care of it, the good stuff lasts forever.

Figure out what works for you. Renting is the best way of doing that until you figure out what you want to do. By the same token, having your own gear sure is nice when someone calls you on a Thursday night and asks if you want to dive with them Saturday morning.

A few years ago I was at the LA Scubashow. I was in the market for a new regulator and stopped off at the Atomics exhibit. The line was pricey, but had an excellent reputation. While speaking to the rep, one of her friends came up and in mid-sentence interupted our conversation. She engaged him and ignored me, and I wandered away when it became apparent that this was not to be a momentary diversion. As result, Atomic lost the sale.

 

[rivers]

The budget question really bugs me. You are buying critical life support equipment for an environment in which you cannot survive for a minute without it. How do you put a price on that? This is not a sport for penny pinching. The fact is, diving is an expensive endeavor. That 50 or 100 bucks you might save by buying a lesser quality piece of equipment will be eaten up so fast by the costs of a good dive trip that you won't even notice it. Show me high quality, durable and dependable gear. Prove to me that it is the right piece of gear for me, and as good as any other brand on the market, and I'll buy it. That's not to say I don't look to save money where I can - I always buy exposure suits off the closeout rack - but the critical pieces of my equipment will always come from the top shelf.

As for when to buy equipment - I agree that OP may be a bit premature. It doesn't hurt to rent for a while - but at the same time there's nothing wrong with starting his exploration of gear options. A bit more than a decade ago when I started diving I did just that. Around dive #15 or so, when I had a rented reg literally come apart on me as I was diving a wreck in the Keys, well, that's when I knew it was time.

Yo do realise a lot of that "top shelf" kit is exactly the same as the low-mid range equipment. The low to mid-range just has a bit less bling. take for example and Apeks DS-4 and ATX-40. The ATX-40 is the same internally as an XTX-200. It uses the same service kits, okay it doesn't have a twiddly knob, but you can fit your own or not worry about it (i've elected to not worry about it). They breathe the same, they are both cold water rated. The difference in price: ATX-40x2 (primary and octo/back-up)+DS-4 first stage is £229. XTX200 (primary)+XTX50 (back-up/octo) and FSR first stage (which uses the same service kit as a DS-4) is £569. Why would I pay an extra £340 for a set of regs that are the exact same internally?

 

[GW06]

Yo do realise a lot of that "top shelf" kit is exactly the same as the low-mid range equipment...

Yes, of course I do. Once again - I never said it was necessary to buy the "most expensive" gear in the shop. By "top shelf", I mean high quality gear that best fits my needs. In many cases that means buying the piece with a few less bells and whistles if that bling doesn't serve your individual needs. If a given diver decides that those twiddly knobs are more of a pain than necessity (which, I agree they can be) then he/she should not buy that reg.

I am simply making the point that I feel getting the "right" gear is a far more important concern than meeting a budget number. In the long run, if I pay a hundred bucks more for a higher quality reg that is going to serve MY needs ten years longer than a "budget" piece, haven't I made a smart move? I certainly think so.

 

[redacted]

I am simply making the point that I feel getting the "right" gear is a far more important concern than meeting a budget number. In the long run, if I pay a hundred bucks more for a higher quality reg that is going to serve MY needs ten years longer than a "budget" piece, haven't I made a smart move? I certainly think so.

Maybe not. As a new diver looking at Scubapro regs, you had a choice between a relatively inexpensive Mk2 with an R190 or you could go with one of their HP 1st stages and a balanced and adjustable 2nd (at maybe twice the price). The quality is little different. In fact, I would expect the inexpensive reg to have an edge in reliability. Whether the extra price is worth the added performance and prestige is the issue. Either set will serve a new diver well.

If you do not stay with diving, the inexpensive set will have wasted less $$$. If you stay with it, you will be buying more regs anyway including back-up gear and regs for redundant gas - a job well suited for that lowly, reliable Mk2/R190.

 

[RJP]

By "top shelf", I mean high quality gear that best fits my needs.

[video=youtube;G2y8Sx4B2Sk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]

 

[GW06]

Maybe not. As a new diver looking at Scubapro regs, you had a choice between a relatively inexpensive Mk2 with an R190 or you could go with one of their HP 1st stages and a balanced and adjustable 2nd (at maybe twice the price). The quality is little different. In fact, I would expect the inexpensive reg to have an edge in reliability. Whether the extra price is worth the added performance and prestige is the issue. Either set will serve a new diver well.

Your answer proves my point. In the instance you propose, the Mk2/R190 IS the "right" gear. Accepting your premise of an "edge on reliability", then that is a proper decision based on the quality/durability/performance argument I made earlier.

My problem with the "what is your budget" question is that in my experience, if I give a sales person (of any sort, not just in a dive shop) an answer of $1000, the first thing they will do is show me a product that sells for $1200 in an attempt to up-sell me, or at least get me to that $1000 number...when in fact, maybe the "right" gear for me would only cost $700. He wouldn't keep his job very long if the boss caught him "down-selling" customers. I would much rather have them ask me about what kind of diving I do. Let's first work on finding the proper equipment for MY needs - and then we can concern ourselves with cost.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

The budget question really bugs me. You are buying critical life support equipment for an environment in which you cannot survive for a minute without it. How do you put a price on that? This is not a sport for penny pinching.

I think that by starting a post with a line like this is why you may have gotten some attention. This has to be the biggest BS line there is when it comes to selling Scuba gear.

 

[RJP]

The budget question really bugs me. You are buying critical life support equipment for an environment in which you cannot survive for a minute without it.

I think that by starting a post with a line like this is why you may have gotten some attention. This has to be the biggest BS line there is when it comes to selling Scuba gear.

Yeah... if you can't hold your breath for one minute you shouldn't be diving.

:d