CONCEPTION FIRE - NTSB REPORT & NEW USCG RULES

[Ken Kurtis]

Here's the link to the SoCal forum and our presentation/discussion of all of this:

https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/conception-tragedy-three-years-later-link.625194/

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[drrich2]

our presentation/discussion

Thanks for the link. The presentation was quite good. My mind wandered a bit in the discussion, one of those 'May I be excused; my brain is full' things. I have a couple of questions; apologies if these were covered and I just missed them.

Earlier on, I believe it was mentioned about new regulations covering craft in that category up to 100 gross tonnes, and the Conception was 97, yes? So, what if a hypothetical dive boat were 101 gross tonnes? How would it's regulatory safety burden compare?

It's mentioned the escape hatch size (around the 45 minute mark in the video) for post-1996 standard is 32 inches. Wonder how they arrived at that, and how much of the diving population can fit through that readily? It's not just a question of cross section; many people have the greatest girth in the belly, where they only have the spine in terms of bony structure.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Earlier on, I believe it was mentioned about new regulations covering craft in that category up to 100 gross tonnes, and the Conception was 97, yes? So, what if a hypothetical dive boat were 101 gross tonnes? How would it's regulatory safety burden compare?

I think those might be sub-chapter H. (Wookie can probably comment better on this than I can.) I think the reality is that 99% of the dive boats will be sub-chapter T boats so will fall under these new regs.

It's mentioned the escape hatch size (around the 45 minute mark in the video) for post-1996 standard is 32 inches. Wonder how they arrived at that, and how much of the diving population can fit through that readily? It's not just a question of cross section; many people have the greatest girth in the belly, where they only have the spine in terms of bony structure.

No clue how they arrived at that number. Again bear in mind for a reference we're all familiar with, the typical airline seat (economy) is 18" wide. Sometimes it seems like they pick these numbers of out of thin air. I'm sure there was some logic behind it, but I don't know what it was.

 

[KevinNM]

Wookie once explained to me on his boat that gross tonage is highly manipulatable. And it isn’t a bug, it is a feature of how the whole gross tonnage system works. IIIRC, he had an entire bulkhead to the dining area that was technically removable that somehow meant that a bunch of the boat didn’t count for gross tonnage.

 

[lowwall]

It's mentioned the escape hatch size (around the 45 minute mark in the video) for post-1996 standard is 32 inches. Wonder how they arrived at that, and how much of the diving population can fit through that readily? It's not just a question of cross section; many people have the greatest girth in the belly, where they only have the spine in terms of bony structure.

32" is a common minimum width requirement in the ADA standards for things like doors (404.2.3) and passages (403.5.1). I would be surprised if those standards are directly applicable here, but if you were looking for a standard that was larger than the old it would make sense to borrow one that's already in general use and has been vetted for limited mobility situations.

 

[BoundForElsewhere]

Former California dive boat captain indicted on misconduct charge in connection with fire that killed 34 | CNN

A federal grand jury indicted a former California boat captain Tuesday on a misconduct charge related to a fire that tore through his vessel on Labor Day 2019, killing 34 people, prosecutors said.

www.cnn.com

 

[Steelyeyes]

Victims in deadly Conception fire were awake, tried to escape burning boat, report says

Video recovered from one of the victim's cellphones shows the divers were awake and trying to get off the burning boat, according to a report.

abc7.com

 

[Bigbella]

It's mentioned the escape hatch size (around the 45 minute mark in the video) for post-1996 standard is 32 inches. Wonder how they arrived at that, and how much of the diving population can fit through that readily? It's not just a question of cross section; many people have the greatest girth in the belly, where they only have the spine in terms of bony structure.

I worked both the Truth and the Conception, over Summer and Winter breaks from school, in the late 1980s-90s -- and a good portion of the crew, most of whom were young and in good to great shape, had issues going through those hatches -- that, during the best of times.

Not to be too uncharitable, that was also the beginning of the (obligative) custom suit industry; and a number of us had uneasy discussions on the increasingly "large and in charge" nature of some of the divers and whether they would ever fit . . .

 

[Ken Kurtis]

. . . a number of us had uneasy discussions on the increasingly "large and in charge" nature of some of the divers and whether they would ever fit . . .

Good point but two other points worth remembering:
1. Those hatches and sizes were mandated by USCG, built to those specs, and examined/approved each year during annual inspection.
2. The hatches are still wider than the typical airline seat (which is 18").

 

[Bigbella]

Good point but two other points worth remembering:
1. Those hatches and sizes were mandated by USCG, built to those specs, and examined/approved each year during annual inspection.
2. The hatches are still wider than the typical airline seat (which is 18").

That airline seat analogy is awfully cute, though such a spurious argument, since its size can easily be altered by lifting a single arm armrest, with one's little finger.

USCG? Fair enough; but as an aside, I know of more than a few "coasties" who wouldn't have a chance of getting their prodigious asses through that hatch . . .