Computer instead of Dive Table?

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cuberoot3i:
know the tables, dive with a computer. this will extend your bottom time. if you go "tec" you will dive tables with a computer as a back up.
if you need help with a computer ask. most accadents happen by not being able to understand what you see. i would recommend staying away from most info on gue and the "dir" stuff untill you had some experance. it deals with caves and egos.

Cuberoot, I veiw dive tables and dive computers both as teaching tools. Ultimately you really do not need either. For air, you can sum to a factor of 115, where the number 115 is the sum of your depth in feet and your bottom time in minutes (including descent). That gives you quite good NDL limits for air.

There are similar factors for EAN32 and EAN36, and you can even calculate your own based on equivalent air depths. Now you would not need either a computer nor a table with NDLs on it with you, while you were diving. Nor would you need to memorize tables (like many of us did when we all got started).

A software program for planning your residual dives would work even better, since you could program customized conservatism factors into it as well. But that is a tech issue.

Tech is beyond the scope of the original question however.
 
triton94949:
Passing bum scoop. Imagine that.

I did not say that it is preferable to go to a resort without a dive computer or bottom timer (or watch and depth gauge) and tables as beginners.

You are talking about a perfect world, where people never take shortcuts, and where mistakes never occur.

Divemaster dependent divers is not a perfect world, but it is indeed a reality. It is not an issue of passing bum scoop.

In a perfect world, if they are learning to dive with a computer rather than tables, then it makes sense for them to buy their own computer. In a really perfect world, someone would teach them to be independent of both a dive computer or of tables.

In a perfect world, they will be able to follow the divemaster, and if the divemaster does something really stupid, then they will be able to find their way back to the anchor line, and back up to the boat.
um, you said:

"If you have the luxury of a divemaster leading your group, then all you need to do is stay close to the divemaster, and watch your air gauge from time to time.

The time when you will need to monitor your own depth and time is when you are diving on your own with a buddy. For resort diving, it is normally a much wiser choice to stay with the divemaster."


I agree with Doc - bum scoop.
 
Damselfish:
Well, you have a problem if you're someplace without a computer and don't know how to do tables. You should always know how do them and if you don't have a computer you should be planning your dives according to your tables. Review how to use them before your trip.

Some people in resort areas dive without either, just following the profile given by a divemaster, or just plain following the divemaster - but this is really NOT a good idea at all. Don't do it.

Damselfish,

You are absolutely right on the money here. Welcome to the ScubaBoard, and may I say that is an excellent start for a first-poster!
 
H2Andy:
i've never dove with them, but i've been to the Keys, and usually what they tell
us is to surface halfway through the dive *if* we don't know where the boat is,
give the ok, get a bearing, and finish the dive heading for the boat

i've never heard that we had to surface

and frankly, if a DM told me i had to surface halfway through the dive,
i wouldn't say anything, and do my dive my way

if they don't like it, tough

I tend to want to follow the directions of the boat. With that said - I won't ever dive with them again. I'm looking at ocean divers, as I still haven't "Dove the Grove".
 
BigJetDriver69:
Damselfish,

You are absolutely right on the money here. Welcome to the ScubaBoard, and may I say that is an excellent start for a first-poster!
Thanks for the welcome. :) First-poster?
 
Know the tables and have them while diving in a pocket. The computer can be: flooded; smacked and stop functioning; strap come off and loose it; well, You get the picture. You took classes How to dive, the computer in a sense is the same. You could have a list instead of a class...step1 put gear on...step2 walk to the water....... The class taught You lots about diving and what to do to survive Your visit to the water world. Your computer should be a device to HELP the dive. Your Schooling (knowing the tables) is going to have You survive to go again. As in class....Make a plan, dive Your plan.
I have survived diving hundreds of hours underwater a year not because of a computer but knowing my LIMITS. Do Yourself a very important favor....Learn the tables and use them..........Bill
 
Damselfish:
um, you said:

"If you have the luxury of a divemaster leading your group, then all you need to do is stay close to the divemaster, and watch your air gauge from time to time.

The time when you will need to monitor your own depth and time is when you are diving on your own with a buddy. For resort diving, it is normally a much wiser choice to stay with the divemaster."


I agree with Doc - bum scoop.

Well, I thank you for your vote. Maybe then, since Doc was not the only person confused by my reply, but obviously 2 people at least are now confused, maybe even 3, perhaps I should restate. I will try.

1. If you are taking an SDI-TDI class, and they are teaching you to use computers and not tables, it is probably smart to get your own computer, or rent one, as soon as possible.

2. If you cannot afford a computer of your own, perhaps you are in the wrong class.

3. There are ways to learn how to dive without a computer. GUE and NAUI instructors both teach these advanced techniques. If you want freedom from computers and from tables, perhaps you should look up a GUE or a NAUI instructor.

4. If you go to a resort, there will most certainly be divemasters leading your group. But divemasters can get you hurt, because it is not a perfect world. Although it is normally a good idea to stay with your divemaster, since it is not a perfect world, there are no guarantees.

Is that better now? Does that un-confuse the 3 of you?
 
triton94949:
GUE and NAUI instructors both teach these advanced techniques. If you want freedom from computers and from tables, perhaps you should look up a GUE or a NAUI instructor.


I'm curious as to why you think NAUI instructors are teaching diving without tables? What have you seen? What do you know? Thanks for your answer.
Neil
 
triton94949:
Well, I thank you for your vote. Maybe then, since Doc was not the only person confused by my reply, but obviously 2 people at least are now confused, maybe even 3, perhaps I should restate. I will try.

1. If you are taking an SDI-TDI class, and they are teaching you to use computers and not tables, it is probably smart to get your own computer, or rent one, as soon as possible.

2. If you cannot afford a computer of your own, perhaps you are in the wrong class.

Maybe I worded something incorrectly before. I dont' want to give SDI a bad rap. My instructor is actually very very safety conscious. SDI teaches computers and tables but they put most of their emphasis on computers. But if a student doesn't quite understnad the tables, it isn't hindering their progress. I am fortunate that I understand them. (I work in a research lab and do calculations all day long so things like that is easier for me because I am use to it)


Also, I dont' think I am going to buy a dive computer anytime soon. I haven't even been on my first real dive yet. I know I am going to love Scuba diving but what if I end up hating it? Also, my husband and I are going through this together so whatever we buy, we have to buy two of.....and we already spent a boat load on personal gear. I'll wait and see how much I can go diving and then I will think about investing in more equipment. Also, I have no idea what brands of equipment is good and what isn't. I would hate to go buy some computer that sucks because I am a newbie and didn't know better.
 
BlueBlur:
My instructor is actually very very safety conscious.

BlurBlur, I do appreciate what you are saying but I thought I would make a side note: every new diver feels that their instructor is "very very safety conscious" but in reality in many cases it's because the new diver doesn't know any better. As I started to learn about diving - and I'm honest here when I say I don't have a lot of diving under my belt - I learned there are more than two sides to every sail and that most instructors, even if they are aware of additional information, tend to stick with the certifying agencies tag line. Sometimes that's good and other times it's not all the information.

With that said - I have met several instructors that have been given high praise by their students that were just piss poor. This - like any other industry - is pretty much the norm.
 

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