Complete Confusion W/ Reg Selection

[buckyblue920]

I have learned there is no such thing as "idiot-proof" from my time in the military and in law enforcement. I only want to make a smart informed purchasing decision, and I like to know my options from those who have experience in this field. I can speak of SCBA's and rebreathers from the hazmat realm, but SCUBA is an entire new game I want to be educated in. For a newbie like me, I want to hear from those who can speak of the equipment 1st hand and become a safe operator in the water.

 

[RTee]

This is, unfortunately, a misleading statement. Using a DIN/yoke converter has a very real problem in that it pushes the reg at least an inch off the tank valve; that one inch often results in the reg banging against your head when you look up. It is NOT comfortable for most divers, and has a much more noticeable impact on diving enjoyment than the performance differences between any decent quality reg, which mostly are a matter of adjustment and quality service anyway. The only decent solution for someone who regularly dives yoke and DIN tanks (like me) is to have separate regs for each. And since in the U.S. the vast majority of the OW classes, charters, rentals, geared towards new divers are yoke tanks...

When HOG comes out with a yoke conversion, then they're appropriate for someone in the OP's position. I'm not anti-HOG, as I'm not in the business at all and have zero interest in what someone decides to buy. The prices for those regs are a huge improvement over the typical bloated retail ($1500 for a titanium atomic?) and the company's attitude toward self service is a great step in the right direction. But that still doesn't make DIN regs a smart purchase for someone using yoke tanks.

Halocline.... A DIN reg assembly and a DIN to yoke adaptor will enable the individual to dive anywhere and using 232 DIN, 232 Yoke, 300 DIN and 200 Yoke valve assemblies the he will encounter locally and worldwide. Please tell me what is misleading about that. The fact that there is less valve to head clearance resulting from one combination will just force him to properly adjust his tank and harness as he should do in the first place. My GF has no problem diving her recently DIN converted Mares Abyss with a DIN to Yoke adaptor either locally or when we travel. Therefore, it should be the same for the OP.

Last time I read the OP statement, he was looking at purchasing one good reg that would not break the bank not two as you are suggesting.

FYI...If you look closely at my avatar and picture, it should point out the obvious...I do own and use regularly a Sherwood SR1 Yoke reg assembly. I also own and use Zeagle Flathead VIs (DIN) when I dive doubles and two HOG Coldwater D2 (DIN) for my stage bottles. My GF has no problem diving any of the tanks we have at home but with my Yoke assembly, I am limited to two AL80 (that will eventually be replaced by HP 100 or 120 cft) when diving single tank. If I had to do it again, all my regs would be DIN...just for that flexibility I referred to.

If the OP next question is what tank he should be considering once qualified...no doubt I would be recommending 100 - 120 cft steelies for the advantages they provide in terms of size and buoyancy. Here again, a DIN reg will serve him well and an adaptor will allow him to use his reg when diving AL 80 locally or when travelling.

 

[Paladin]

I have used US Divers/Aqua-Lung regulators since the mid 1960s and I have never had one fail me. I have used (and still own) double hose and single hose US Divers/Aqua-Lung regs with complete satisfaction. I have a 1959 DA Aqua-Master, Conshelfs of various models (11, 12 and 14) Aquarius and Calypso. My youngest son has a Conshelf SE and a new Calypso. My oldest son has a Conshelf 11, a Conshelf 22 and an Edge Epic. The Titan is an evolution of the Conshelf design and uses the same internal parts as the Royal Aqua-Master (double hose) and the Conshelf series, starting way back in the mid '60s. The Conshelf/Titan regulators are bulletproof and utterly dependable and have given reliable service for nearly five decades. They are easily serviced (I service my own) and parts are readily available.

The Edge/HOG regulators are also excellent regulators at a very reasonable price. My oldest son loves his new Epic. Either the Titan LX or the Edge/HOG would serve you well.

 

[halocline]

Halocline.... Please tell me what is misleading about that. The fact that there is less valve to head clearance resulting from one combination will just force him to properly adjust his tank and harness as he should do in the first place. My GF has no problem diving her recently DIN converted Mares Abyss with a DIN to Yoke adaptor either locally or when we travel. Therefore, it should be the same for the OP.

The only part of your other post that I found misleading was that you can use a DIN/yoke adapter with no problems....IME the reg being farther off the valve is a problem. My tank is not too high, it's adjusted right where I want it. I use a BP/W which, admittedly, does place the tank closer in than typical jacket BCs. But I like that.

I would not assume that because your GF (or you) do not have problems with the adapter that it should be the same for the OP. I could just as easily tell you that your tank is either too low or too far off your back, as you can tell me the opposite about my set up. IOW, without getting into an entirely separate argument about optimum tank placement, neither one of us really knows anything about the efficacy of the other's set up. For me, I like the tank right where it is both for trim and valve access. I also dive with a double hose that I mount much lower for reasons specific to dh use. I'm quite familiar with tank height adjustment and how to find what is optimum for me.

Regardless of whether the adapter does cause the reg to smack you personally in the head every time you look up, my argument here is that it makes no sense to recommend buying a DIN reg to a new diver in the U.S. who is going to be encounter yoke tanks the vast majority of the time, when there are so many excellent yoke options to choose from. I believe that is exactly the way I put it. If the OP knows that he will be using DIN tanks, fine, get a DIN reg. But most new (i.e uncertified, waiting to take an OW class at a U.S. dive shop) are absolutely not in that position, and will be using AL80s with yoke valves.

The reason hog and dive rite sell DIN regs is because they're marketing to technical divers, which is a fast growing market segment and is not as saturated as the recreational market. Maybe at some point in the future, the U.S. will turn to DIN as the 'standard' for recreational use, and IMO that would be, overall, a positive move. But it's not there yet.

Yet another mind-boggling argument about minutia on SB.. almost like the 10 page thread on bungied necklaces! That's why we like it here.....and in this specific case, it appears that HOG will be offering a yoke alternative before the OP even starts his classes, so maybe this whole thing is academic.

 

[eelnoraa]

I am with Halocline. DIN to Yoke adatpor on Din 1st stage is giving clearance problem is very real. This seems mostly affect shorter BP/W users. A flatter plate like DSS, DiveRite will make it worse. In my case, 5'6", DiveRite plate, tank is at the lowest possible position (upper tank band at the break of the thank curve part). Plate and harness setup reviewed by two GUE instructors. If I use DIN to Yoke adaptor, my head hit the 1st stage. Changing plate to OMS or Halcyon helps, but using a native Yoke 1st stage completely solve the problem.

My suggestion to OP is to go with Yoke as your first reg espeically if you will be using rental tank most of the time. For rec diving, DIN offers little advantage. And I highly doubt in anywhere in the world, you can't find a Yoke tank.

If you ever go into tec/wrech/cave, you will be using double, you will need additional regs anyway. Buy two DIN setups or have your current reg converted. At that time, the cost of the reg conversion or even buying additional reg is insignificant compare to other cost.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

I have mentioned this before but everyone has ignored the advice so far, but here goes again. If you purchase a HOG reg set from DRIS you can currently get a yoke valve connection. Mike from DRIS has stated a couple of times he has yoke kits that will work with these regs that you can purchase TODAY, not in march but yes TODAY. No these kits are not from Edge/HOG but from another company. So this argument is a non issue.

 

[Paladin]

If DIN is the issue, why not just get an Edge Epic cold water reg in the first place?

 

[highflier]

OP,
I read and talked to alot of ppl before I made my decision. Here is what I did, this may not 100% apply to you.

1) Research DIN vs Yoke tanks in your area, what do they rent. yes you can use adaptor, but if you are always using adaptor then not get it they way you will use it.

2) bang for buck Hog D1 single tank is a great setup. I beleive the standard is the coldwater version. What ever brand you get I say get the sealed/cold water version as a absolute requirement.

3) If you buy a name brand that is cold water ready, You will have no worries, so it is really about what company you want to give you money to.

4) Before you buy ask about service policies, once every year or once every 2. Then the cost of the service, carefull on this one as some say parts are free for life, Miss a service just once and you may not be happy ever again, as parts may cost you a arm and a leg. I also beleive that free parts are just hidden into the service fee's. That may just be me as I don't think anything is free.

5) HOg is marketed to the Tech diver, But that is just marketing has nothing to do with if they are good or not for rec divers, just the audience that HOG is trying to get to buy the equipment.

6) There are requirements to do self service of the HOG's, But keep in mind just like all the other regs you can have them serviced by a pro. If you every decide you want to self service you have a route to go. You may never go that way, but at least they give you a path.

7) If I was you, I would get the dive team togeather and see if you can all agree on the gear of choice, Could be benificial for several reasons, discount pricing, Familiar with other gear, Advice to and from each other, Same parts, can borrow from each other etc... And if one of the team does self service he can do it for all.

8) I slightly disagree with Jim on waiting on buying some gear. He may be right, but it is nice to use your own gear in training as you get used to the setup and instructor may correct minor issues for you such as weight and how gear is configured, I.E long hose, short hose, differnt hose routing etc.... Thus it is a big mistake if you do not get into the hobby for any reason, Renting gear for traininng will not cost you that much. but if you are buying gear at the end of training, you will have saved some money and gotten some advice on how to wear it etc....

Personally I went back and forth like 5 times on the Hog Epics or the HOG D1. In the end I choose the HOG D1 for serveral reasons, some of which are. Both seconds are identical, as apposed to the epic that have a preset octo. I beleive them to be more durable and thus will last me possibly the life of my dive carreer. They are officially what is taught in the self service class, although I think you could take the class with Epics, (first stage is the same as the HOG D1). I do have DIN tanks availible to me, and if I decide that it is a problem, I will end up paying a little extra to have the HOGS coverted back to a Yolk tank.

MSRP for the complete hog setup is ilke $449, that is for the first, 2 seconds, in the sealed/coldwater version that also includes the Yoke spin on adaptor. I am sure if you shop around you can do a little better, if you do a team/bulk buy probably a fair amount better.

While I think I may mail my regs out for service if I do not self service, The last thing you may want to consider is who and where is the guy that will service you regs, and how much do you trust them. The best regs out will preform like sh&t if serviced poorly, and even the basic stuff will work good if serviced well.


Given the fact how you want to use your gear, I think that I would avoid a Full Jacket BC and go with either a BI BC or wing setup. But heck what do I know I never have dove a wing yet. Just seams like you would want to be streamline and have very free sensitive movement of you arms and body, without having to worry about Did I bump into something or was that just my jacket.

Highflier

 

[buckyblue920]

Thank you all for the responses and feedback. I appreciate the advice from everyone's perspective and this has greatly benefited me in the end. I recently visited our lake rescue team on the fire side of the house and gained some insight into what locally works for them as well. These boards have offered some great advice, and the discussion amongst gear preference / training has helped make my choice easier as well.

Thanks again to everyone here.

 

[Kunundrum]

The best advise I can give is try before you buy. (Would you buy a car without a test drive ?)

In your open water class you will try out some gear, and you will start learning what you like/dislike about your equipment, what works for you as a diver. the more you do this the better you can base your decision. There is no shame in renting equipment, don't feel like you have to buy it all outright before you set foot in the water. most people tend to buy in stages and purchase more equipment as they progress in the sport.

As for gear, most MFG make quality equipment, some more flashy than others (Grey, Green, Blue Purple & legendary ). I am a little weary of HOG/Edge as they are a fairly new to the market and they have yet to impress me. I'll stick to the mainstream companies that have an established reputation (Scubapro, Aqualung, Apeks, Atomic, Cressi), yes they cost more, but they have been established in the marketplace for decades and are likely to be around in decades to come.