communicators and full face masks

[DA Aquamaster]

Mike,

A regulator with an adjustable cracking effort is preferable for use on a FFM to avoid any slight freeflow issues.

In my opinion positive pressure regulators are not a great idea as they tend to have the equivalent of a slight freeflow anyway unless a perfect seal is maintained, which is hard to do consistently in the real world.

Paula,

I agree that silence is one of the benefits of diving. I can see benefits to com equipment on some technical and commercial dives but am hard pressed to find a good reason on rec dives.

And short of having a gas switching block, the diver will need to remove the full face mask to use an alternate air source and this requires carrying a spare mask to be used in that situation. It's more than the subset of rec divers with more money than skills should probably be trying to manage.

Air consumption is also always higher due in small part to slight freeflow issues and in large part to the disruption of an efficient breathing pattern that occurs when you talk. This pretty much eliminates the FFM with com equipment as a valid option for gabby divers who also happen to have high air consumption.

 

[rmediver2002]

Anyone here dive with communicators? I had a few questions about them...

1. How is the sound clarity
2. Do all communicators require full face masks
3. If so do these full face masks leak often and are they hard
to clear

Thanks for any info.

Gerard

1. depends on the unit but when proper techniques are used the clarity is fine.

2. No, but as already mentioned the FFM is the most efficient short of a helmet.

3. Not when properly worn, it really pays off to get with someone who knows the unit inside and out or take a class to become familiar with these units, they are not complicated to use but sometimes when people have bad experiences with them it is from inproper use of the unit not from bad design of the unit.

Most of the masks are very easy to clear.

Here are some versions to check out:

http://www.adp.fsu.edu/HistoryOfDiving/index.html

 

[diverbrian]

Gerard,

I have a friend I won't buddy with anymore when he wears his full face mask & communicator. The guy just won't shut up! & part of the reason I love diving is for it's peacefulness. I'm sure communicator's have their place, but not with me for a buddy.

Just another point of view.
Paula

On the videos that are in that library, they are using them to sell their gear, so they talk a whole bunch to demonstrate teh range and clarity. I see them as being great for emergencies or quick status checks every once in a while, but after a while all the "unnecessary" chatter would get on my nerves as well. I thought about going that way last year and figured that I wanted to do more trips.

In the case of some tech diving accidents, the use of comms gear may even save lives in the ability to contact the boat and have extra gas taken down instead blowing a deco stop to inform the boat that a problem exists. I don't do those kind of dives yet. I would rather talk about my dive after I am safely on the shore or on the boat.

 

[mntdiver]

I just posted this (below) to another thread, sorry for the repetition, but I think it may be pertinent here as well. The other thread is: http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=36208&page=1&pp=10

As for gabby friends, well, not much can be done about that. What I've found is that the more you use the equipment, the less you talk. Gets to a point were most people only say what needs to be said.

DA Aquamaster - I'd dissagree with the need for an adjustable second stage. The Divator reg isn't adjustable and is IMHO the best regulator for a FFM. Unlike other regulators out there, it was designed specifically for the full face mask. I do agree with you though about positive pressure. I use the demand regulator version. The positive pressure feature was designed for SCBA applications.

============================================================
Now this is a resurrection of an old thread. As stated by NyResq, proper training is a necessity for diving a full-face mask as with any advanced piece of equipment. There was a little bit of doom and gloom in that previous post, but I'm not going into a point by point. Something to think about though, there are more divers (properly trained) that have been saved by full-face masks than have ever been hurt by them. Unconsciousness with a bite mouthpiece is a VERY bad thing. In addition, proper training and use of communications equipment could save many divers from an unfortunate peril. If you review accident reports that involve diver separation, out of air situations, etc... And think about how the ability to ask for assistance or just basic communications could have made a difference and you will see what I mean. What other sport requires you to be gagged and hearing impaired? This is especially true when performing more complex tasks where coordination and communications become even more important. Even with a well-planned dive, Mr. Murphy throwing wrenches is almost always in attendance.

Now, having said this, are full face masks for everyone? Nope. Are there issues that need to be examined? Lots. Gas switching is and will be an issue. Learning to doff and donn is a requirement, not an option. And it needs to be done with the equipment you're going to be wearing to a point where it becomes second nature. Double sided hood seals? I wouldn't recommend them except the use of attached latex hoods. And attached hoods have inflation issues that you have to learn how to deal with as well.

Mask selection is most important after you've determined the need to dive a full-face mask. This is where you need to research the available equipment. Talk to people that use them. Find out the advantages and disadvantages of each. Look at the quality of manufacture and the design. I'll say only one thing here, Cortez, if I were your divemaster friend that owns a Neptune II, you'd never see me dive it either.

Determine the need, make an informed decision, then get educated and practice.

 

[mntdiver]

Gerard,

I have a friend I won't buddy with anymore when he wears his full face mask & communicator. The guy just won't shut up! & part of the reason I love diving is for it's peacefulness. I'm sure communicator's have their place, but not with me for a buddy.

Just another point of view.
Paula

Paula, How were you listening to him? Were you wearing comms as well?

 

[diverbrian]

I went through a pool session with a salesman in Deerfield Beach, who I suspect is one of the posters on this thread. I could get used to this gear as I agree about the potential. I have a couple of dive buddies looking at doing this now. I am trying to talk them into expanding the communications potential to the boat and not just each other if they do.

Overall, if my buddy were to respect radio discipline and not talk my ear off (funny thing is that I VERY talkative on land), I could get used to it and come to like having an FFM and coms. The training would take a little while, but that wouldn't be an issue to me either. The masks that I remember seeing were basically self clearing. I can't see how they would get knocked off underwater as they are held onto the face in a similar manner as the respirator masks and Emergency Air Breathing masks that I have had to use in the past.

I just wished that I had the cash to pay around with them some more as (like the rest of my dive gear), I refuse to go with a cheap/low quality system and I was looking at about 3K to go this route with no dive buddies that currently use underwater comms.

 

[gerardnealon]

Gerard,

I have a friend I won't buddy with anymore when he wears his full face mask & communicator. The guy just won't shut up! & part of the reason I love diving is for it's peacefulness. I'm sure communicator's have their place, but not with me for a buddy.

Just another point of view.
Paula

hahah, it would mainly be for me and my wife to play around with. If she talks too much I can just tell her to shut up, hehehehe :11ztongue

 

[Bob3]

... I refuse to go with a cheap/low quality system and I was looking at about 3K to go this route with no dive buddies that currently use underwater comms.

Dang, you can get a couple-few sets for that much, as long as you're not paying full retail.

 

[diverbrian]

Dang, you can get a couple-few sets for that much, as long as you're not paying full retail.

... a radio set-up for the boat +
... a FFM/BuddyPhone for my buddy (as nobody that I dive with has underwater coms and they are pretty useless without your dive buddy in the loop)

and

... the FFM/BuddyPhone for me.

All of that equals at least a couple of trips to the Caribbean/Florida to answer calls from lovely sirens :wink.

 

[Bob3]

I see, that sounds more in the ballpark now.
The part that threw me off was:

... with no dive buddies that currently use underwater comms.

It sorta sounded like you were expecting to be shelling out the $3K just for your own set of gear. Heck, you could get fixed up with a Bandmask for that.
You might want to consider the "receive only" models for folks with ratchetjaw syndrome.

If you wait for DEMA, OTS has dirt cheap (relatively speaking) "show specials".
I also know a dealer out here that keeps spares on the shelf for the local PSD teams, every year or 2 the "dusty model" gets turned over & sold at a discount.