Cold Water Single Tank Kit Without Weight Belt

[RobPNW]

I think people might sometimes confuse the concept of the wing being able to lift you as a total package with it being able to float the kit at the surface in the event you remove it for some reason. Obviously the exposure suit will assist as a total package or you can assist by finning if flooded. If you mismanaged air, have a partially filled wing and finning alone won't cut it, I guess you have to ditch weight.

Based on comments here, and thinking the likelihood of floating the kit at the surface is low, I'll probably go with the 40lb wing. I'm leaning towards the Apeks D40 because it look like a pretty flat design that won't taco the tank, even at that size.

If I'm in a rescue scenario, and diving from a boat, I'll probably keep the kit on during the trip back to the boat anyway, assuming I will get help from someone on the boat lifting the person out of the water. If it's a shore dive, and the kit is slightly negative, I can always remove it in shallow water, carry the person out and retrieve it after.

 

[inquis]

Obviously the exposure suit will assist as a total package

If your suit floods, it's all on the wing... but that's no problem since you should pick one that will float on its own. (You & flooded suit are largely neutral, so the only thing wanting to sink is the rig.)

 

[davehicks]

So I'm trying to put together my first cold water kit and wondering if I can get away with no weight belt, and if so, what size wing I will need. This is more of a feasibility question and if it's too difficult, I can always use a belt. I'm not concerned at all about warm water because of the buoyancy of AL tanks and significantly less exposure suit buoyancy.

My starting point is a Subgravity 6mm BP and a bar weight for the BP channel. I'm hoping to get HP100 steel tanks in the future. I have 2 S620ti 2nd stages, a MK17 Evo 1st stage and hoses for a long hose configuration. I wouldn't be carrying anything substantial like a powerful light.

I want to put my needed weight in trim pockets on one of the cam bands and the remainder in ditchable weight on my waist harness. Obviously, the goal is to be able to float the kit at the surface at the beginning of the dive with the steel tank full. I'm wondering if a 40 lb wing would cut it.

I know the BP weighs 10 lbs and the bar weight is 3 lbs but I don't know exactly how that translates to seawater negative buoyancy. I believe a full HP100 is around -8 lbs. If nearly all that translates to negative buoyancy, than that would be roughly -20 lbs and that's not even considering what more I would need to offset a drysuit.

Is there even a way to figure this out? Would I literally have to get in shallow water with everything but the wing and just add weight until I sink and then I would know the lift I need?

For sure you can do this. I used to dive in a drysuit, an LP95 with no bp, 20lbs of ditchable weight on the bc and another 6 lbs in trim + ankle weights.

Now i dive a rebreather but still dont use a belt. Weights are about the same as above.

 

[waterone]

One of my rigs is a hollis 5.5# SS plate with holis pockets and a 38lb wing. Plenty of lift and often floating with a hp100 by itself with the weight pockets fully loaded and ready for me and my drysuit.

 

[Jlapp]

@RobPNW I'm a new diver and decided to build up my own BP/W rig as well. I'm thinking along the same lines as you I've ordered the SubGravity 6MM BP (10lb) and 37# Paragon Wing. They didn't have the Adjustable Harness, and since the recommendations on here are it's not really a necessity anyway, I decided to go custom nitrox green harness setup from Piranha (less money than the SG adjustable as well). Talked to Randy, he's a great guy, he helped me not make a couple of sub-optimal choices.
Anyway, I've decided to go with cam band trim pockets (3-4lbs each), Leg weights (1.5 per), and MAKO silicon (Yellow, to stick with the Nitrox theme, cause why not?) belt to account for whatever I'll end up needing on top of that.
I was def leg-light in my checkout/drysuit dives, so I think the leg weights will help distribute accordingly. Again I got the MAKO set so I can put them on my shins so the weight is not all the way back. I dove with about 1/3 of my weight on a weight belt in my dry suit in class (required to do skills), and I didn't mind it, and I think it helps if you are doing equipment donning and doffing to keep some of the weight on your body. IDK I'm a noob, but that's just my logic. Will I be taking my rig off? Not likely, but it just seems prudent. Also, my class BDC was so heavy when I got it off, I forgot I was wearing a weight belt half the time, I can't imagine having the whole load on the rig, granted I should need less # overall with the BP/W setup.

 

[RobPNW]

@RobPNW I'm a new diver and decided to build up my own BP/W rig as well. I'm thinking along the same lines as you I've ordered the SubGravity 6MM BP (10lb) and 37# Paragon Wing. They didn't have the Adjustable Harness, and since the recommendations on here are it's not really a necessity anyway, I decided to go custom nitrox green harness setup from Piranha (less money than the SG adjustable as well). Talked to Randy, he's a great guy, he helped me not make a couple of sub-optimal choices.
Anyway, I've decided to go with cam band trim pockets (3-4lbs each), Leg weights (1.5 per), and MAKO silicon (Yellow, to stick with the Nitrox theme, cause why not?) belt to account for whatever I'll end up needing on top of that.
I was def leg-light in my checkout/drysuit dives, so I think the leg weights will help distribute accordingly. Again I got the MAKO set so I can put them on my shins so the weight is not all the way back. I dove with about 1/3 of my weight on a weight belt in my dry suit in class (required to do skills), and I didn't mind it, and I think it helps if you are doing equipment donning and doffing to keep some of the weight on your body. IDK I'm a noob, but that's just my logic. Will I be taking my rig off? Not likely, but it just seems prudent. Also, my class BDC was so heavy when I got it off, I forgot I was wearing a weight belt half the time, I can't imagine having the whole load on the rig, granted I should need less # overall with the BP/W setup.

So far, I have the Subgravity 6mm SS plate, a Dive Rite basic harness, a 1.5" crotch strap, an IST BP channel weight pouch and 3 lb weight bar to put in it, a couple basic cam band trim pouches, a couple waistband weight pouches, a waistband "stick" (absence of a light cannister) for routing a primary long hose, and am looking at the Subgravity Paragon 44 lb wing. I am far from feet light but will see how is goes in cold water.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

I dive dry here in the PAC NW with a total of 34lbs of lead. I dive a 120cf or 102cf HP Steel tank and a 19 CF Pony. I have 10lbs on a standard weight belt. 5lbs on each hip. Then I have another 20 lbs of ditchable weight in my BC. (Seaquest Black Diamond) 10lbs on each side.......and then a 2lb ankle weight on each ankle. I dive primarily solo......or with a hunting / gathering buddy so still basically solo. My thought process and planning for this weighting strategy is that if I am ever in a situation where I am fouled and may need to remove my system for any reason, I still want to have the 10 lbs on my person to keep things under some level of control while I work and resolve the problem. Plus I have the multiple options of ditching either 10, 20 or all 30 lbs if needed. Anyway, that's my personal strategy and the plan that's always in my mind on cold water drysuit dives..,..

 

[Robert H. Diver]

I dive dry here in the PAC NW with a total of 34lbs of lead. I dive a 120cf or 102cf HP Steel tank and a 19 CF Pony. I have 10lbs on a standard weight belt. 5lbs on each hip. Then I have another 20 lbs of ditchable weight in my BC. (Seaquest Black Diamond) 10lbs on each side.......and then a 2lb ankle weight on each ankle. I dive primarily solo......or with a hunting / gathering buddy so still basically solo. My thought process and planning for this weighting strategy is that if I am ever in a situation where I am fouled and may need to remove my system for any reason, I still want to have the 10 lbs on my person to keep things under some level of control while I work and resolve the problem. Plus I have the multiple options of ditching either 10, 20 or all 30 lbs if needed. Anyway, that's my personal strategy and the plan that's always in my mind on cold water drysuit dives..,..

that’s a ton of weight….

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

Actually it's way less than a TON and it is what has worked perfectly for me for the past 35 years. If you want to dive cold water in the Pac NW with 20lbs or 10 lbs....... then go for it. I fully support your choice of weight that works best for you.

 

[rx7diver]

So I'm trying to put together my first cold water kit and wondering if I can get away with no weight belt, and if so, what size wing I will need. This is more of a feasibility question and if it's too difficult, I can always use a belt. I'm not concerned at all about warm water because of the buoyancy of AL tanks and significantly less exposure suit buoyancy.

My starting point is a Subgravity 6mm BP and a bar weight for the BP channel. I'm hoping to get HP100 steel tanks in the future. I have 2 S620ti 2nd stages, a MK17 Evo 1st stage and hoses for a long hose configuration. I wouldn't be carrying anything substantial like a powerful light.

I want to put my needed weight in trim pockets on one of the cam bands and the remainder in ditchable weight on my waist harness. Obviously, the goal is to be able to float the kit at the surface at the beginning of the dive with the steel tank full. I'm wondering if a 40 lb wing would cut it.

I know the BP weighs 10 lbs and the bar weight is 3 lbs but I don't know exactly how that translates to seawater negative buoyancy. I believe a full HP100 is around -8 lbs. If nearly all that translates to negative buoyancy, than that would be roughly -20 lbs and that's not even considering what more I would need to offset a drysuit.

Is there even a way to figure this out? Would I literally have to get in shallow water with everything but the wing and just add weight until I sink and then I would know the lift I need?

@RobPNW,

I wear a weight belt when I am diving a single back cylinder and a drysuit. FWIW, I have had to doff my rig at depth to deal with a massive free-flow while returning solo from depth (~135 ffw). I described this incident in one of my early SB posts.

I was wearing a HP80 (a 3,500 psig PST cylinder that was emptying fast). Doffing was no big deal since I was wearing a significant amount of weight on my weight belt, and my suit was close-fitting (custom) crushed neoprene (so, not a huge bag of air surrounding me), and my weight belt had two buckles on it (so, minimal chance of losing it accidentally).

I would have hated to have been in that situation with all of my ballast on my rig!

BTW, I had to doff my rig at depth one other time (coldwater wetsuit dive while wearing a weight belt) to deal with a fishing line entanglement. Again, no big deal.

FWIW.

rx7diver