Clearing some1 elses mask. Possible?

[SquattingRadishDM]

When I was doing my DM 2 years ago for the "Assisting with students in training" bit I did some confined water dives with a group of OW students containing my dad and my sister. (it was at Jules Undersea Lodge, Key Largo, FL if anyone here knows it).

Anyway my sister had problems breathing without a mask on (very common problem). They were kneeling on the bottom and she was asked to remove here mask, she took it off and ended up droping it. I could see here getting jittery as she couldnt find it and I raced to get it. However she bolted for the surface from 15' :11: . I grabbed hold, made sure the reg was in here mouth and slowed her accent.

On the way up I was contemplating taking my mask off, giving it to her and trying to clear it by tilting it slightly and squirting air from my octo into it. We would then decend get her mask and swap masks. Would this work? Im not sure. (I suppose at least if she had my mask she might have stopped panicing and cleared it herself, tho paniced divers aint predictable!)

Anyway by the time I had worked out the machanics of this we had reached the surface. She was fine, sat out the rest of the dive and then completed the course within the next couple of dives. I also just wanted to do things by the book as I was still a DM candidate. Instructor said I did fine.

If we were at 60'+ things might have been very different and this maneuver could have been useful. So my question is can this be done? I dont have the opertunity to get in the water and try this out at the mo so I thought I would ask around.

I look forward to your comments.

-Jack

 

[MyDiveLog]

My sense is that it's possible to clear most of the water from someone else's mask that way ... you'd probably want to 'burp' the air in slowly ... the physics of air rising and displacing water are the same. Having said that, it's probably not practical: a partner willing to sit there and have you blast air in their mask without panicing is probably calm enough to clear the mask themselves. One which requires you to do it for them would probably panic anyway.

Even if you could do it for her, it strikes me as being too much of a crutch for her; she needs to be able to master this skill if she's going to be a safe, self-proficient diver.

We teach our students scuba by first having them get comfortable breathing through a reg underwater with no mask on. We 'walk' them around the pool in this manner ... it's always a bit irritating for them, but it really drives home the point that they don't NEED a mask to survive underwater. You might try doing this in a confined setting with her until she IS comfortable with mask removal and replacement and clearing.

Good luck!

 

[sealkie]

yes it is possible = a lot of students are calm when they first try and clear the mask but they try and clear it by breathin gout thro their mouth not their nose - so a quick gentle blast from you octo can clear their mask to some extent

But a panicing diver in open water is not going to sit there while this occurs

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

So my question is can this be done?

....snip....

-Jack

Absolutely not.

I agree with "MyDiveLog"..... Clearing a mask like that would require the subject to cooperate and remain still and calm throughout. And if they can do that then they can clear their own mask.

What I find helps if someone is getting really stressed on a mask clearing excercise is to get them to pinch their nose off and breathe for a bit before going further. If they have to pinch their nose off then they need more practice but I think if you help a student to do it themselves then they'll have a much better feeling about it than if you do it for them. Sometimes wrestling through something will give a person a deeper sense of accomplishment than doing it right the first time.....This applies to more than just masks too.

R..

 

[SquattingRadishDM]

Thanks for the helpfull advise for getting a diver comfortable without a mask, although my sister qualified 2 years ago and is ok now.

I agree that all divers should learn to clear there own mask and be comfortable without a mask (and do an awfull lot of other things for themselves). The main purpose of posing this question was to offer a solution for the scenario of a diver loosing their mask at depth, panicing because they are not comfortable, bolting for the surface and getting DCI. I agree that through proper practise and training at the OW level this situation should never arise as all qualified divers should have no problems breathing without a mask.

If a diver bolts for the surface because they cant breathe without a mask they most probably will hold there breath on the way up. I am not satisfied with the method of grabbing hold of the paniced diver and slowing there accent in this particular incedent as I thought I could take away the factor causing the panic (no mask).

If this incident were to happen at 60'+ I think it would be worth a try. As a diver bolting from that depth is probably going to get lung overexpansion or DCS (depending on bottom time & nitrogen uptake). If you could stop their accent by calming them down then this can be avoided. Although I realise that not everyone is going to be calmed by a some1 grabbing hold of them when, as far as they are concerned they cant breathe.

I guess I am just searching for possible solutions to scenarios that could arise so I have more options to choose from in those few seconds that a rescue takes place. This is what this board is for after all.

Safe diving (and rescuing)

-Jack

 

[Diver0001]

....snip....

If a diver bolts for the surface because they cant breathe without a mask they most probably will hold there breath on the way up. I am not satisfied with the method of grabbing hold of the paniced diver and slowing there accent in this particular incedent as I thought I could take away the factor causing the panic (no mask).

It's good to think about these things. I would say that if a diver is panicking then you've already missed something essential. I would also think that a diver in panic who is focused on getting to the surface is going to the surface even if you were able to replace the mask. And finally, the technique of trying to replace the mask underway to the surface, even if it were possible to do so, would have an adverse effect because you would be purging your regulator into the face of a diver who is in panic because of not having a mask......

Do you know the expression "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" ? You're looking at how to get the genie back in the bottle once he's escaped. Look at how to avoid him escaping.

....snip....

I guess I am just searching for possible solutions to scenarios that could arise so I have more options to choose from in those few seconds that a rescue takes place. This is what this board is for after all.

Safe diving (and rescuing)

-Jack

Lets look at it another way. How do you avoid it becoming a rescue? What do you need to look at to see it coming? How do you respond before the panic starts?

R..

 

[RICHinNC]

just a thought...but if a person is that dependant on a mask and most are...i would just get me a small frameless back up mask...(as i do)

 

[SquattingRadishDM]

Diver0001 I see what your saying. Prevention IS better than cure, and as I think breathing with no mask is probably one of the biggest panic factors for a new diver, I think that every OW graduate should be taught to overcome this. Im sure many of you instructors out there do this already and masks off.

I myself had problems initially breathing without a mask in my OW and did lots of snorkelling with goggles instead of a mask. This seems to be a well used cure from looking at the posts on the Newbie board.

I guess clearing some1 elses mask would work in theory but probably wouldn't calm the diver down, so guess I'll abandon that one.

-Jack

 

[Nay]

It's good to think about these things. I would say that if a diver is panicking then you've already missed something essential.

This is something I find really frustrating on this board, and this isn't just you, Diver0001, it's a lot of people.
You can only control your training and that of your students to a degree. You have no control over other people's training or how they will react in any given situation.
If I encounter a diver, be it my buddy or someone else entirely, having a problem like this or any other, I can't swim by and say, "well, that person shouldn't be diving if they can't deal with it." or jump out of the water to yell at their instructor.
So, instead of stating the obvious like "You should be able to do that if you're a diver," why not look at possible solutions to the problem if it does arrive? She was in an OW class and it's totally normal to feel some panic during a mask removal that early in the game.

I'd rather see solutions to dealing with problems that shouldn't happen in the first place but sometimes do. So many times I read on this board criticisms of other's diving training or whatnot that are speculative and completely unproductive.
SquattingRadishDM was looking for options in case this kind of thing happens again.

Just my personal vent.
Happy Friday.

 

[Diver0001]

...snip She was in an OW class and it's totally normal to feel some panic during a mask removal that early in the game.

It is?

IIRC he was talking about one of the OW checkout dives and at that point we cannot talk about "early in the game" anymore. A couple of more dives and the diver in questoin will be certified and free to panic without any supervision at all.....

I'd rather see solutions to dealing with problems that shouldn't happen in the first place but sometimes do.

OK, but then you didn't read me carefully. I offered one. Get the diver to pinch their nose shut before they panic. He waited too long before intervening and let the genie get out of the bottle, making his problem much harder to deal with. I wasn't there when it happened so it's hard to say if it could have been avoided but I firmly believe that with these kinds of things you need to look to solutions to root problems and not solutions to what happens after it spins out of control. I think that RadishDM understood that message.

So many times I read on this board criticisms of other's diving training or whatnot that are speculative and completely unproductive.

I think you misunderstood me completely. I WAS offering him some tools and suggestions.. Specifically I was offering him the advice to look at prevention instead of cure. I think that's relevant advice from one DM to another.

Nevertheless, if you like we can go into what to do if the diver is really panicking. It's ok with me. What would you have done in the situation that RadishDM described?

R..