Classes to be a great well rounded diver?

[ginti]

This really depends on how you quantify courses. Either by teh end goal or the skills you pick up along the way

So with DM, it with the possible exception of cave, is the only course where you should have exception buoyancy in very shallow water (less than 1 atm) Most divers pass through this depth once on teh way down and once on the way up.

With guiding - especially with strange divers whose skills are indeterminable before the dive, you are effectively a solo diver - so lots of mental "what if" preparations and then you do need to have lots of available bandwidth so you can concentrate on navigation and your guests. and basic fundamental skills need to be dialed away. Guests can "disappear" in an instant

Tech obv teaches you in depth about gas planning and deco etc,. the fundamental buoyancy skills shouldn't be anything special - its just that most people starting tech aren't as capable as they believe they are

Cave is something else since you're in a physical overhead and you have the added pressure of lines and lights, silt outs etc. The only comparable course is ADV wreck with considerable penetration - but with wreck you have the possibilities of currents - each is their own speciality. I'm comfortable penetrating blue water deepish wrecks - but you wouldn't get me into a cave. Not my thing.

Caven again isn't anything special since you're in the light zone, the fundamental requirements aren't that onerous

But on each course, techniques and processes you learn during that course can only assist you in normal diving and you never know what little nuggets of knowledge you will pick up


That said, courses are artificial. They're deliberately safe. Post course you consolidate the information and enhance the skills especially when you need those skills and muscle memory kicks in.

For instance being comfortable slowly demonstrating reg remove and replace, served me well once when I had a hose failure at 40m where switching regs, doing shut downs was little more than an annoyance, for others it may have been a drama

Courses teach you the skills but diving gets you to practice and perfect them.

Thanks, this was a detailed answer.

Summarizing to the extreme, it seems to me that the core advantages of a DM course (in comparison to other technical courses) are: exceptional buoyancy control in the shallowest waters and solo mentality.

Now I have to be honest: I have seen DM with awful buoyancy; hence I must assume that this skill is not a direct outcome of the course itself, but it depends on the instructor. But the instructor always plays a role, so that's ok... However, if we introduce the "instructor" variable, I think that a good tech/cave instructor will probably teach exceptional buoyancy skills even in the most shallow water. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

The "solo mentality" is something that I need to understand better. Do you mean to be self-reliant? If yes, it is actually very well developed in technical diving, but maybe the bandwidth you mentioned is probably formed in a different direction (novice and potentially dangerous divers vs hazard due to depth/overhead/etc.). Frankly speaking with you, depending on the dive that one uses to do, I am reasoning that it might be an advantage even for non-professional divers; for instance, if one often travels and dives with insta-buddies. This is a good point, without a doubt.

I have just one last question: does your description reflect only your DM courses, or any DM course by a good instructor?

 

[ofg-1]

You don't need classes to be well rounded. Do what the rest of us have done, just start eating pasta, pies, and Chimichangas. And beer, lots of good beer. You will get to be well rounded.

 

[Marie13]

I earned my TDI cavern/intro to cave cert this past long holiday weekend (yes, allowed by standards). Instructor said she saw a huge improvement in my diving over the weekend. I’ve poked around in some shipwrecks, but I’m looking forward to more penetration next year now my skills have improved. Will likely do full cave next winter.

The overhead didn’t bother me. Never thought I’d be interested in wet rocks in the dark, but this was a former mine so there were some artifacts to look at, too.

 

[rsingler]

...does your description reflect only your DM courses, or any DM course by a good instructor?

I would emphatically say that it is instructor dependent. I was a DM, and then an AI for a year before I started IDC with another instructor. My course director asked that I audit the DM portion (no cost, just lodging and time away from work) before starting his OWSI. What an eye opener! All the fine points I didn't know I hadn't been taught.

 

[ginti]

I would emphatically say that it is instructor dependent. I was a DM, and then an AI for a year before I started IDC with another instructor. My course director asked that I audit the DM portion (no cost, just lodging and time away from work) before starting his OWSI. What an eye opener! All the fine points I didn't know I hadn't been taught.

I am sure it is. I asked just to understand if the "mentality" part that @Diving Dubai described is something I should expect only from him or also from any other good instructor. This is relevant as well for the OP.

Anyway, thanks

 

[MichaelMc]

Being a DM in a 'neutral from the start' class will give you buoyancy practice. Part of the time it will push you to be in more control than the students as you maneuver in front of them mid-water. But needing to maneuver in close proximity to them only happens a small part of the time. Most often you are just hanging nearby watching or sometimes demonstrating.

The bonus of DM is that you spend a good bit of time in the pool, but it is not for working on your skills but doing some basic ones as demos on watching students do them. Any time you spend, say, refining your reverse kick is done while watching and helping students, not just working on your skills.

Being a DM, you will spend a lot of time explaining basic weighting, how the gear works and what the dive plan is, many times.

Taking a buoyancy or other class from the above neutral instructor and practicing on your own will likely be more efficient.

Being a DM in a 'kneel on the bottom till we have to let them swim around' class will give you very little buoyancy practice, nor the students.

 

[Zef]

Being a DM in a 'neutral from the start' class will give you buoyancy practice. Part of the time it will push you to be in more control than the students as you maneuver in front of them mid-water. But needing to maneuver in close proximity to them only happens a small part of the time. Most often you are just hanging nearby watching or sometimes demonstrating.

The bonus of DM is that you spend a good bit of time in the pool, but it is not for working on your skills but doing some basic ones as demos on watching students do them. Any time you spend, say, refining your reverse kick is done while watching and helping students, not just working on your skills.

Being a DM, you will spend a lot of time explaining basic weighting, how the gear works and what the dive plan is, many times.

Taking a buoyancy or other class from the above neutral instructor and practicing on your own will likely be more efficient.

Being a DM in a 'kneel on the bottom till we have to let them swim around' class will give you very little buoyancy practice, nor them.

Just my opinion but if one needs to work on buoyancy issues or needs to be pushed to "be in more control than the students" then they are not ready to be a divemaster/dive pro and is just adding to a dilution of quality and highlighting a lack of standards.

I don't pay professional painters to "practice" on the walls of my house. Nor should a divemaster be looking for "practice" in the context of working with a class...they should be the definitive example, and unfortunately most are not.

-Z

 

[MichaelMc]

Just my opinion but if one needs to work on buoyancy issues or needs to be pushed to "be in more control than the students" then they are not ready to be a divemaster/dive pro and is just adding to a dilution of quality and highlighting a lack of standards.

I don't pay professional painters to "practice" on the walls of my house. Nor should a divemaster be looking for "practice" in the context of working with a class...they should be the definitive example, and unfortunately most are not.

I agree. The dive skills you mostly use as a DM, basic maneuvering and OW skills, are what you should already have mastered to be in front of students. The teaching and supervising are things you should be learning in the DM class.

 

[NothingClever]

The amount of detailed discussion here is impressive.

@NCK - are you coming to any conclusions for yourself while we try to fix the dive industry's frustrating paradox of standards and reality?

I admit I may have missed it.

 

[TMHeimer]

Thanks, this was a detailed answer.

Summarizing to the extreme, it seems to me that the core advantages of a DM course (in comparison to other technical courses) are: exceptional buoyancy control in the shallowest waters and solo mentality.

Now I have to be honest: I have seen DM with awful buoyancy; hence I must assume that this skill is not a direct outcome of the course itself, but it depends on the instructor. But the instructor always plays a role, so that's ok... However, if we introduce the "instructor" variable, I think that a good tech/cave instructor will probably teach exceptional buoyancy skills even in the most shallow water. Please, correct me if I am wrong.

The "solo mentality" is something that I need to understand better. Do you mean to be self-reliant? If yes, it is actually very well developed in technical diving, but maybe the bandwidth you mentioned is probably formed in a different direction (novice and potentially dangerous divers vs hazard due to depth/overhead/etc.). Frankly speaking with you, depending on the dive that one uses to do, I am reasoning that it might be an advantage even for non-professional divers; for instance, if one often travels and dives with insta-buddies. This is a good point, without a doubt.

I have just one last question: does your description reflect only your DM courses, or any DM course by a good instructor?

Since there have been several posts regarding divemasters, the skills they get assisting with courses, etc. I will ask this--
Where are all these DMs (and some instructors) that have awful buoyancy skills? In my 4 seasons I probably worked with 15 instructors and maybe the same number of DMs. They all seemed pretty darn good buoyancy-wise to me.
I don't think assisting in a "neutral" class vs. a "knees" one should have any effect on a DM's buoyancy skills. They should be well beyond needing extra practice!

But admittedly, I have read quite a few posts over the years with people saying they have seen DMs and instructors who have very poor skills.