Class Report: UTD Wreck 1, October 2009

[Blackwood]

Yes I know . . .those are simulated contingencies that we did in Open Water in AG's inaugural Wreck Class back in '05. I'm asking Marc if AG attempted to do these drills inside the Yukon this time (but it sounds like he refrained because of the tight spaces & surge).

There would have been room, he just didn't feel the need. This portion of the class is more about getting comfortable in and learning to move around the wreck. He wouldn't have brought us in if he didn't think we could do gas sharing and whatnot in there.

That's one of the nice things about the new format. You had 5 days total, right? We had 3 days, a couple months to practice and then 3 days.

 

[Rainer]

Does this mean that the UTD Cave classes will not do lights out / air sharing exits (and other failures) while in the cave if students look comfortable in the three day OHP class?

Just curious.

There would have been room, he just didn't feel the need. This portion of the class is more about getting comfortable in and learning to move around the wreck. He wouldn't have brought us in if he didn't think we could do gas sharing and whatnot in there.

That's one of the nice things about the new format. You had 5 days total, right? We had 3 days, a couple months to practice and then 3 days.

 

[Blackwood]

Does this mean that the UTD Cave classes will not do lights out / air sharing exits (and other failures) while in the cave if students look comfortable in the three day OHP class?

Just curious.

No idea. It's likely at the discretion of the instructor, but I haven't read the standards for Cave.

Another consideration that may have come into play is that we were at 80 feet, so our gas didn't last nearly as long as it would in a shallow cave. Gas sharing drills would have cut immensely into allowable penetration time given thirds (note at least one of us was always using a single set of doubles for two dives.). I suppose he could have had us sharing on the repet dives, but didn't see it as necessary.

 

[Kevrumbo]

There would have been room, he just didn't feel the need. This portion of the class is more about getting comfortable in and learning to move around the wreck. He wouldn't have brought us in if he didn't think we could do gas sharing and whatnot in there.

That's one of the nice things about the new format. You had 5 days total, right? We had 3 days, a couple months to practice and then 3 days.

I think it was two consecutive three-day weekends: one doing open water drills at the Breakwater/San Carlos Beach in Monterey, and the last in San Diego on Danny's Yellow Boat. But simulated open water drills don't convey the near reality of doing contingency practice inside an actual wreck. . .

Just remember, strategic line laying & placement is the key: for example, you don't want to do a closed-wrap & lock (or wrap & choke as you say now) on the middle rung of a ship's ladder like my buddy did, and then do a lights out team egress. So guess who the number three man was who found the middle rung and smacked it hard with his forehead ? (The instructor saw the potential problem initially, but left it to fully demonstrate the pitfalls of line traps, and bad tactics on line tie-offs & wraps).

 

[rjack321]

Does this mean that the UTD Cave classes will not do lights out / air sharing exits (and other failures) while in the cave if students look comfortable in the three day OHP class?

Just curious.

I seriously doubt that. Read the standards and ask AG yourself next month. Unless you are just posting to stir the pot, then carry-on.

 

[Rainer]

That's the depth of the FL caves for Cave 1, right? Just curious about the logistical differences. As Kevin notes, I'm sure it's different in the wreck than out in the sand at Vet's.

No idea. It's likely at the discretion of the instructor, but I haven't read the standards for Cave.

Another consideration that may have come into play is that we were at 80 feet, so our gas didn't last nearly as long as it would in a shallow cave. Gas sharing drills would have cut immensely into allowable penetration time given thirds (note at least one of us was always using a single set of doubles for two dives.).

 

[Rainer]

I seriously doubt that. Read the standards and ask AG yourself next month. Unless you are just posting to stir the pot, then carry-on.

Just trying to figure out what the difference could be between the cave and wreck classes. Why practice those exit procedures in Cave 1 (i.e. in the cave), but not Wreck 1 (i.e. in the wreck)? If anything, sounds like the wreck is the harder environment to get out of.

Thoughts?

 

[rjack321]

No idea. It's likely at the discretion of the instructor, but I haven't read the standards for Cave.

Another consideration that may have come into play is that we were at 80 feet, so our gas didn't last nearly as long as it would in a shallow cave. Gas sharing drills would have cut immensely into allowable penetration time given thirds (note at least one of us was always using a single set of doubles for two dives.). I suppose he could have had us sharing on the repet dives, but didn't see it as necessary.

French caves are this deep or more. As well as many FL systems. Then again its not a huge deal to bring one set of doubles per dive to a cave. Cramming those on a boat is less likely.

 

[rjack321]

Just trying to figure out what the difference could be between the cave and wreck classes. Why practice those exit procedures in Cave 1 (i.e. in the cave), but not Wreck 1 (i.e. in the wreck)? If anything, sounds like the wreck is the harder environment to get out of.

Thoughts?

It is a harder environment to get out of and there's less capacity for instructor control as well. Both argue for NOT "practicing" air sharing exits. This is really neither a realistic nor a likely failure. No vis or cut line exits are a much higher priority in wreck than they are in Cave and I think AG's cutting of the line at the questionable secondary tie (multiple times) was meant to hammer this point home.

 

[Blackwood]

I think AG's cutting of the line at the questionable secondary tie (multiple times) was meant to hammer this point home.

It certainly set in with me. I don't suspect I'll ever forget it.