Question Choose Camera Balance of Three Ease of Use, Cost, Quality for Macro

[bvanant]

I think for what you want, look at the micro 4/3 world. Small housings, small lenses, etc. The backscatter octopus housing is $2500 for camera/housing/lens/ports and a single strobe with arms. (From Mozaik). You would need to get a true macro lens ($300) and you will be good to go.
A TG/6/7 will get you small subject capabilities (but small sensor and no control to speak of ).

The whole thing underwater will/can be virtually weightless.

You will also need a focus light ($200 or so). $3000 is certainly doable with good quality. More $ mean more better quality.
Bill

Backscatter UH-EM10IV Underwater Housing AND Olympus E-M10 IV w/14-42mm lens ... | eBay

Backscatter and AOI worked together to design the Backscatter Limited Edition Octo Housing. The most noticeable feature is the cool looking exterior, with the intertwining tentacles of an illustrated octopus wrapped around th.

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[Nemrod]

Thank you for hints about my budget. I can save more$ and pay more, I’m just afraid of dropping an expensive rig. (Chicken)
So paying more to get blasts of color and clarity is worth it. My foray into the used market will be when i sell. I have just had too many disappointments buying used.
i was going to wait until March Scuba show in Danvers MA, or at least for Holiday sales, but first need to decide what i want, since #3 is price concern.
I also see people with huge cumbersome rigs, and would rather get something that is smaller, as i am a small person with skinny arms. The folding arms or bendable arms for lights and flash are something that is on interest, which brand arms work best for flexibility and not drifting out of place?
Is there such thing as setting up camera on sea floor, then backing away so fish will come close to camera, then remotely triggering the photo?
I had set up the go pro to video, dribbled crumbs in front of it, and backed off to get fish video, but quality of screenshots was unsatisfactory.

You have some misconceptions, the "huge cumbersome rigs" handle like a Porsche underwater. Small cameras are often quite negative and will also need float arms to be near neutral. And even a small camera like the TG, by the time you add strobes, lights, a tray with handles and arms to tie it all together it will often be much more cumbersome and take up more space than purpose designed higher end equipment like my "huge cumbersome rig" that collapses down much smaller than my dive buddies with TG rigs and and handles far better underwater and is capable of much better photos due to the larger sensor which has much more dynamic range and higher resolution ultimately

No, you probably will not find joy in a remote triggered camera for fish pics underwater.

Most underwater photo people have above water experience, at least back in the day. Though underwater is very different an understanding of basic camera function is required.

Some key differences between surface photography and underwater is that 1) most shots are taken with flash 2) there is water and sediment and bubbles in your way between subject and lens 3) arms are needed to move the light sources outward to reduce illumination of that sediment between subject and lens 4) the strobe (and video) light is absorbed rapidly thus the camera must be close, rarely more than 3 feet and preferably closer 5) and thus the need for wide angle lenses or special macro lenses 6) sunlight is rapidly filtered leaving you with only bluish greenish photos if you are too far from the subject or without strobes.

I am going to go back to recommending you a TG. It is a unique little camera in that it does take very good macro shots, you can play around with wide angle with accessory lenses, it will support external strobes and despite the smallest of small sensors can do RAW files. If you buy quality strobes you can upgrade cameras and still use the same strobes or sell them and recoup some money.

 

[tarponchik]

Battery life two hours

Just as a hint, it is more convenient to measure battery life in the number of shots taken. For example, my A6000 can take about 220 shots with the flash on before its battery is depleted. This is good enough for 2 average boat dives.

 

[rmorgan]

Yes. Talk to Reef Photo, Backscatter, Mozaik Underwater, Optical Ocean...all the big ones.

Sadly, Optical Ocean Sales cashed out after the pandamonium. Bluewater has a full-line uwp site, though.

Also, the Backscatter MF-2 strobe, which is purpose-built for macro and does a good job with it, is a worthy competitor to the Inon, especially since you rule out wide angle. A snoot built for the MF strobes is available and simple to use.

@Bubblesong, given that you are interested in a special-purpose (macro, large prints) system, if you don't think a TG or other Olympus/OM system would serve, you might consider the Sony A7 II, which is a small, older (but still available new) full-frame, 25mp body. The body is sub-$1000, and there are inexpensive housings (e.g. Seafrogs/Salted Line). An A7ii body, housing, and single strobe (two is better, of course) would cost under $2k. With the excellent macro lens you would need, port, focus light, tray, arms, clamps, strobe trigger . . . possible around $3k, I'd think.

 

[PatW]

I would suggest going to a shop that specializes in underwater photography. Backscatter has a shop in New York and they are quite good. You will be able to see and handle the options you might be interested in.

At $2500, you are going to be constrained. It can be done but a bit more does open up options.

I looked at the Backscatter site and you can get a mirrorless 4/3 camera for that price and 20 mega pixels (which should be fine).

Now as to your photo quality, what are you using it for? Off the top of my head, I forget the megapixels in video media. Most of it 4 megapixels max. I think really high end high resolution screens can hit 8 megapixels but I could be wrong.

So the ONLY reason you will need megapixels is for large prints, If you go on you tube, most of the sources say that 24 mega pixels will allow you to print enormous enlargements. For larger megapixel cameras, you get the ability to crop, You can take a photo and compose it in post processing.

By the way, since you are shooting macro, you will probably go for high F values to get depth of field. High F stops result in diffraction which reduces your effective megapixels. So shooting macro means a high megapixel camera is not going to realize its maximum resolution, For you that is good because you do not have to pine for the costly 60 megapixel beasts.

For underwater photography, you want A) a camera that does RAW. B) You have to have a strobe (2 is better but one can do fine. C) the housing - and that is the item that costs $$$$. Also, having a focus light is good too (more than good,

Even a modest camera in the right hands can give impressive results. i used to shoot a Canon G10. There was a guy on the Canon board by the nom de plume of “Gilligan”, who shot a G8 and mostly macro shots. He took some terrific photos. So it can be done. By the way, I think any camera you are even thinking about will be far more advanced than the old G8.

My problem with my G10 was its focus speed was slow so small fish were almost impossible. I upgraded to a DSLR. I went down to Reef Photo and Video. I was thinking of going lower end on the housing. I ended up with the Nauticam. They make great housings with great control and ergonomics. It cost more than I was wanting to pay but the housing was great and virtually bullet proof.

I have a friend who shoots with a mirrorless 4/3 and it does not constrain his shots. I shoot a Nikon z8 with a nauticam housing. It takes great photos. But it costs the GNP of a small country. Underwater it handles nicely but it is big and unwieldy for macro shots. My friend can one hand his camera rig and get into tight areas, Also, he can go from macro to wide angle on the fly. I have to make a decision before the dive to shoot macro, mid range zoom or wide angle zoom. So if I am on wide angle and see a sea horse, well no shot for me.

By the way, try to get a housing that has a vacuum lock system. With a vacuum lock, your chances a flooding your camera go down to very close to zero. It costs a bit but it is well worth the piece of mind.

Good luck to you.

 

[tarponchik]

looks like the cheapest combo per your requirements is Sony a6000 + Sony 30 mm f/3.5 Macro, if SeaFrog has a dome for this lens.

 

[VsubT]

The recommendations pages at Bluewater photo are a good starting point to get an idea of what your budget can buy. Based on your current experience and the learning curve, a TG system or maybe a point-and-shoot system (RX100x / G7x) in a good housing is a reasonable next step from shooting with an action cam. A single strobe and single video light keeps that type of system compact but still very capable. I did something similar, and bought components (strobes, etc.) with my next level system in mind. Keeping the action cam mounted as part of your larger rig is a good option too.

I'd recommend keeping it simple for subjects & techniques initially. Take some time to get things dialed in with fish portraits, simple macro, and reef scenes, then try one or two new things at a time. It's a journey, have fun along the way.

Lance

PS - jump right into blackwater if you prefer frustration.

 

[Bubblesong]

I would suggest going to a shop that specializes in underwater photography. Backscatter has a shop in New York and they are quite good. You will be able to see and handle the options you might be interested in.

At $2500, you are going to be constrained. It can be done but a bit more does open up options.

I looked at the Backscatter site and you can get a mirrorless 4/3 camera for that price and 20 mega pixels (which should be fine).

Now as to your photo quality, what are you using it for? Off the top of my head, I forget the megapixels in video media. Most of it 4 megapixels max. I think really high end high resolution screens can hit 8 megapixels but I could be wrong.

So the ONLY reason you will need megapixels is for large prints, If you go on you tube, most of the sources say that 24 mega pixels will allow you to print enormous enlargements. For larger megapixel cameras, you get the ability to crop, You can take a photo and compose it in post processing.

By the way, since you are shooting macro, you will probably go for high F values to get depth of field. High F stops result in diffraction which reduces your effective megapixels. So shooting macro means a high megapixel camera is not going to realize its maximum resolution, For you that is good because you do not have to pine for the costly 60 megapixel beasts.

For underwater photography, you want A) a camera that does RAW. B) You have to have a strobe (2 is better but one can do fine. C) the housing - and that is the item that costs $$$$. Also, having a focus light is good too (more than good,

Even a modest camera in the right hands can give impressive results. i used to shoot a Canon G10. There was a guy on the Canon board by the nom de plume of “Gilligan”, who shot a G8 and mostly macro shots. He took some terrific photos. So it can be done. By the way, I think any camera you are even thinking about will be far more advanced than the old G8.

My problem with my G10 was its focus speed was slow so small fish were almost impossible. I upgraded to a DSLR. I went down to Reef Photo and Video. I was thinking of going lower end on the housing. I ended up with the Nauticam. They make great housings with great control and ergonomics. It cost more than I was wanting to pay but the housing was great and virtually bullet proof.

I have a friend who shoots with a mirrorless 4/3 and it does not constrain his shots. I shoot a Nikon z8 with a nauticam housing. It takes great photos. But it costs the GNP of a small country. Underwater it handles nicely but it is big and unwieldy for macro shots. My friend can one hand his camera rig and get into tight areas, Also, he can go from macro to wide angle on the fly. I have to make a decision before the dive to shoot macro, mid range zoom or wide angle zoom. So if I am on wide angle and see a sea horse, well no shot for me.

By the way, try to get a housing that has a vacuum lock system. With a vacuum lock, your chances a flooding your camera go down to very close to zero. It costs a bit but it is well worth the piece of mind.

Good luck to you.

Hi @PatW thank you for vacuum lock info.
Also, where does backscatter have NY location? I’ll be in Manhattan for Thanksgiving and had planned on visiting B&H huge showroom, but they are not underwater specialists.

 

[tursiops]

Hi @PatW thank you for vacuum lock info.
Also, where does backscatter have NY location? I’ll be in Manhattan for Thanksgiving and had planned on visiting B&H huge showroom, but they are not underwater specialists.

Have you tried looking at Backscatter's website?

 

[bvanant]

I don't think Backscatter east is in New York city, it is in Derry New Hampshire. B&H has some UW stuff though.
BVA