Changing computers and algorithms - what to expect?

[afieldofblue]

Hello all,

I've been having display issues with my Oceanic computer, a Geo 2, and might have to get a new one very soon.
I've been using the Geo in DSAT and love it.

But I'd like to go for something a little bit more rugged, and with proper customer support (Oceanic's has been catastrophic, discontinued product line, now managed by Huish Outdoors etc... basically no support).

I have my eyes set on a Scubapro Aladin Sports Matrix - the algorithm is a Bühlmann, Uwatec's ZHL16 ADT MB - and it seems to have some sort of advanced deep stop calculation that doesn't sound very convincing, but adjustable gradient factors sounds good!

Would anyone have feedback on this computer's behaviour underwater - I prefer diving conservatively with a less conservative computer - how conservative is the Aladin compared to say the more common Suuntos, Mares, Cressi etc?

I'm currently working both daytrips (two dives a day) and liveaboards (4 dives a day), with an Oceanic divecomputer in DSAT (not the Oceanic Bühlmann, Pelagic Z), with deep stops off, and this worked fine for me - beyond the functions, I'm trying to find out what I'd be getting into dive profile-wise with an Aladin.

Thanks a bunch!

Ben

 

[BoltSnap]

I have my eyes set on a Scubapro Aladin Sports Matrix - the algorithm is a Bühlmann, Uwatec's ZHL16 ADT MB - and it seems to have some sort of advanced deep stop calculation that doesn't sound very convincing, but adjustable gradient factors sounds good!

With a digital compass and Bluetooth support too.

Would anyone have feedback on this computer's behaviour underwater - I prefer diving conservatively with a less conservative computer - how conservative is the Aladin compared to say the more common Suuntos, Mares, Cressi etc?

AFAIK, it is less conservative but not sure by how much. I have heard nothing but good things about it. I am evaluating if to order it for our dive school vs. the AL i300C. I haven't made up my mind yet.

I'm currently working both daytrips (two dives a day) and liveaboards (4 dives a day), with an Oceanic divecomputer in DSAT (not the Oceanic Bühlmann, Pelagic Z), with deep stops off, and this worked fine for me - beyond the functions, I'm trying to find out what I'd be getting into dive profile-wise with an Aladin.

How did you find the DSAT with Liveaboard diving/4 dives a day for a week? Does it do OK with NDL's towards the end of the week? Have you been going deeper than 30m/100ft with it in these Liveaboard trips?

 

[afieldofblue]

AFAIK, it is less conservative but not sure by how much. I have heard nothing but good things about it. I am evaluating if to order it for our dive school vs. the AL i300C. I haven't made up my mind yet.

How did you find the DSAT with Liveaboard diving/4 dives a day for a week? Does it do OK with NDL's towards the end of the week? Have you been going deeper than 30m/100ft with it in these Liveaboard trips?

Thanks for the feedback - it seems like a very well rounded computer indeed - if it's on par with the old Uwatec Aladins it should be on the liberal end of the spectrum, but things might have changed, so I'd like to make sure.

Regarding DSAT, it's working fine with 4 dives a day, subsequent NDLs are generous due to the 60 minute washout - and we're usually doing 2 hour surface intervals minimum.

Maximum depth is 30 m/100 ft - usually 25-ish to see healthier coral, and some dives require staying quite long in the 30 to 20 m area. I do occasionnaly go deeper on a wreck, 30 to 40 m if customers are certified for it (CMAS for example), and then DSAT gives pretty much the same bottom time as other algos, quite conservative.
When I do a deep adventure dive and we compare NDLs at 30 m, there's usually one or two minutes difference only.

But another important difference is that I get a lot of credit shallowing up at less than 15 meters at the end of a dive with the Geo in DSAT, whereas some computers will still be very conservative at that stage, when I'll be already with back with a 20 minute + NDL...

Some entry level computers like the Cressi Leonardo can be problematic in this respect, the "steps" used to calculate NDLs are way too harsh for repetitive diving, requiring a constant monitoring of the comp to anticipate and manage to do more than 3 dives a day.
While the bottom times are not so different, I like the fluid way in which DSAT handles a profile and the generous washout on the surface as well.

I'd say DSAT is perfect for repetitive dives at less than 30 meters - for deeper dives with longuer surface intervalls you can (and should) switch to Oceanic's Buhlmann algo (Pelagic Z+), but you would need to wait 24 hours to switch if still desaturating. This can also make it closer to classic RGBM NDLs as well. .

Diving with a computer in DSAT, it's sometimes a question of knowing where your customers will be NDL-wise towards the end of the dive, I tell them to let me know at 10 minutes to deco and guestimate at 5 to 10 minutes under my own during the dive. I was diving with one of the shop's Suunto Zoop Novos as a back up and to compare, which helps.

The Aqualung rebranded version of the Geo 2 and Veo 3 (identical dive computers, just one in watch form with an extra button), the Aqualung i200 and i300, no longuer have 2 algorithms with DSAT available, but only the Bühlmann PZ algorithm...

b

 

[Centrals]

The old Uwatec Aladin is NOT as liberal as DSAT.

 

[afieldofblue]

The old Uwatec Aladin is NOT as liberal as DSAT.

Could be, but from experience diving with French old timers with Aladin Pros it seems to fit my purposes - ie being more liberal than a Suunto/Mares/Cressi RGBM.
That said, DSAT is not *that* liberal, it's basically the PADI tables in terms of NDL (ie on par with RGBM at depth) but is more generous on the surface due to the 60 minute washout and credits more when shallowing up, making Oceanic's DSAT really nice for shallow-ish repetitive dives, liveaboard style.
For actual decompression calculation the Geo 2 switches to French MN90 tables

 

[Fletch_boy]

How has noone told you to get a Perdix yet?

 

[afieldofblue]

How has noone told you to get a Perdix yet?

Don't think it's really the same price range though. We're talking less than 300 USD here, with the Aladin and the Geo.

 

[Fletch_boy]

Don't think it's really the same price range though. We're talking less than 300 USD here, with the Aladin and the Geo.

Sorry I forgot to type in the sarcasm font. But seriously, you should get a perdix

 

[Centrals]

Could be, but from experience diving with French old timers with Aladin Pros it seems to fit my purposes - ie being more liberal than a Suunto/Mares/Cressi RGBM.
That said, DSAT is not *that* liberal, it's basically the PADI tables in terms of NDL (ie on par with RGBM at depth) but is more generous on the surface due to the 60 minute washout and credits more when shallowing up, making Oceanic's DSAT really nice for shallow-ish repetitive dives, liveaboard style.
For actual decompression calculation the Geo 2 switches to French MN90 tables

I am still using Uwatec Aladin Pro nitrox(1997) and have a Oceanic Veo 180(DSAT) as back up. Both computers have very similar max bottom time(NDL). But Veo usually has couple of mins more. However, on multi-level ascend to shallow depth, the Veo will generate a lot more ndl than Aladin.

 

[afieldofblue]

Yes, this is also my experience - DSAT gives a longuer NDL in the shallows - in the 18 m to 12 m range as illustrated here :