CCR & OC mixed teams for OW Recreational Diving? Good idea or not?

[tstormdiver]

To hi jack the ops thread a bit, CCR & OC divers for tec diving. Not ideal, but is it a bad idea? If you are an OC tec diver, would you do a tec dive with a CCR diver where you have a lot of experience diving with the CCR diver as an OC tec dive team? Ultimately, it is up to the confidence and trust in each team member, but I'm curious how common/uncommon is this.

I have done a cave dive with a CCR diver, as an OC diver. Some of the issues we had to deal with is each diver is essentially a solo diver. I had to carry my own bailout cylinder & I essentially limited the CCR Diver's dive, as I was limited to 1/3's. Perhaps a bit too conservative with too much air, but is there such a thing as too much air? I would rather have it & not need it then to need it & not have it.

 

[vancouverdiver]

I have done a cave dive with a CCR diver, as an OC diver. Some of the issues we had to deal with is each diver is essentially a solo diver. I had to carry my own bailout cylinder & I essentially limited the CCR Diver's dive, as I was limited to 1/3's. Perhaps a bit too conservative with too much air, but is there such a thing as too much air? I would rather have it & not need it then to need it & not have it.

Tstormdiver, sorry for the tardy reply. I'm not a cave diver, but I have the perspective that I am carrying bailout for my buddy and vice versa, regardless if the buddy is OC or CCR. The CCR diver, is carrying bailout for one, but the bailout is available for himself, or for me if I have a catastrophic gas failure. However, I would agree with you, that each diver may be considered a solo diver if they are not familar with each others kit, and do not dive as a team.

 

[wedivebc]

I have done a cave dive with a CCR diver, as an OC diver. Some of the issues we had to deal with is each diver is essentially a solo diver. I had to carry my own bailout cylinder & I essentially limited the CCR Diver's dive, as I was limited to 1/3's. Perhaps a bit too conservative with too much air, but is there such a thing as too much air? I would rather have it & not need it then to need it & not have it.

Tammy, as long as the OC diver follows rule of thirds and the CCR diver is carrying what they would consider adequate bailout for their own use and that volume is no less than 1/3 of what the OC diver is carrying, neither of you are anything like solo divers. The difference is the CCR diver will only need to carry an equal volume of the OC divers 1/3. I would not enter a cave as a solo diver nor would I enter a cave with another diver who considered me a solo diver.

 

[tstormdiver]

Tammy, as long as the OC diver follows rule of thirds and the CCR diver is carrying what they would consider adequate bailout for their own use and that volume is no less than 1/3 of what the OC diver is carrying, neither of you are anything like solo divers. The difference is the CCR diver will only need to carry an equal volume of the OC divers 1/3. I would not enter a cave as a solo diver nor would I enter a cave with another diver who considered me a solo diver.

Solos cave diving is not for everyone,... just like other types of diving are not for everyone. I applaud anyone who knows their limits & follows them. We each carried our own bailout on that dive, so we were each self sufficient. Both of us were taught by the same instructor & one of the core things taught is self sufficiency, even within a team. Although I have never done a solo cave dive, I will not conduct a cave dive that I am uncomfortable with, diving solo. Self sufficiency of all members of a team makes the team stronger.

 

[victorzamora]

Tammy, I can't remember who said it, but I'm paraphrasing anyway....so, there. "I will not do any dive in a team I'm not confident I can accomplish solo." I think that's the best motto there is. If you're not confident that you can accomplish it solo, then it's a "trust me" dive and you're diving beyond where you should be. Thumb it and try it again later. It's a lesson I learned as my wife was learning to dive.

On the CCR/OC mixed team thing, I've not done an OC/CCR mixed team dive yet (nor have I planned one) but it seems to me like you would turn shy of thirds. Also, I wouldn't have the CCR guy carry 1/3 of my total gas. Part of his bailout is to get HIM out. Part of MY bailout is if I have an issue. If some strange series of events occurs, the CCR BO would need to get the CCR diver out AND supplement the OC diver. However, I think that in those cases the "solo divers diving together" is the safest and most prudent method.

 

[Mr.X]

Tammy - I am also of the same mindset. In a particularly nasty, yucky CCR exploration dive into a sunken mine system (in the middle of nowhere) we made sure to cache large amounts of gas in the form of 80's at multiple stops along the exploration line. It was a bit overkill, but it's better to have than not. When you run into to trouble the last thing you want to worry yourself is whether you can breathe.

 

[tphelps]

The only local CCR divers in the area are my instructor & another buddy who went CCR before I did. I am wanting to log many as (quality) hours on the unit, after my certification, as I can to prep for CCR Cave.

The solution is simple Tammy, take a vacation to Hawai'i and come dive with me!
My team mate and I both dive Prism 2s and we do mixed gas stuff all the time. My buddy is also a cave instructor (not for CCR cave), you would probably get along hehe.

 

[tstormdiver]

The solution is simple Tammy, take a vacation to Hawai'i and come dive with me!
My team mate and I both dive Prism 2s and we do mixed gas stuff all the time. My buddy is also a cave instructor (not for CCR cave), you would probably get along hehe.

Thank you for the invite! If all goes well, I should be CCR Cave by the end of the year. Unfortunately, I am not yet CCR or OC Mixed gas just yet (other than Nitrox & Air Diluent). CCR Trimix will be my next step after CCR Cave. The only thing holding me back from CCR Cave at this point, is needing more hours on the Prism2.

 

[Dsix36]

I have done a lot of diving with OC divers, both OW and cave. The normal stuff is addressed prior to diving, like bubble checks and hand signals. We both figure gas consumption and/or bailout needed and dive to the lesser of the two (almost always the OC limits the dive). We also discuss air sharing procedures between the different setups just in case of things going sideways.

The one other thing that I like to mention to any OC diver that I am diving with is this: Due to the insidious nature of CCR issues, if you think that my behavior is strange or dangerous, please just put your backup regulator in front of my face. I might take it or I might not, but try to be persistent about it until I at least take a few breathes.

 

[tphelps]

Thank you for the invite! If all goes well, I should be CCR Cave by the end of the year. Unfortunately, I am not yet CCR or OC Mixed gas just yet (other than Nitrox & Air Diluent). CCR Trimix will be my next step after CCR Cave. The only thing holding me back from CCR Cave at this point, is needing more hours on the Prism2.

I agree, you're going to need some SERIOUS hours before taking that into a cave! Find a buddy with a really big pool, get it nice and warm and just live in it for several days . I hear iPad tablet covers have come a long way, one of those and a Netflix subscription and you should be good! hehehe