Cave instructor playa del carmen?

[Mr.337]

Can you quantify your skills? I know some instructors require "GUE tech pass skills" to let you into overhead training even if they do not teach for GUE. To understand the minimum requirements for a tech pass, see here - page 35:
https://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE-Standards-v9.pdf

To give you an idea, this is the level (you can find many "gue tech pass" videos on youtube):

If you are already here, and you are not interested in GUE, you should be able to start overhead training right now with most (any?) instructors.

Good luck

while i'll admit i'm not perfect with buoyancy i'll say while doing the shutdown drill and simulating regulator failure by instructor holding purge on regulator down while in my mouth having to shutdown that tank and swap regulators, and feathering a failed regulator to continue breathing off it. I assumed this was all standard sidemount instruction and the cavern/cave just built on that. This is why was a little confused for saying i had to do it all over again and pay 3x the price i just paid for it here in the states. While doing the failed regulators and swapping I usually have about a 6" up and down buoyancy so not perfect flat no but would that still be considered acceptable? i have zero problems donating long hoses and swimming with hose donated. I have no issues doing all the kicks as i had to perform them for my sidemount cert. The exception being still need to work on my back kick and maintain focus to keep from backing upwards.... i can do it if i just focus so this is something i know i need to work on.

 

[Tracy]

Also i've spoken with Kim @ protect and she is wanting me to also take a ABC 4 day buoyancy course $280/day before i even start cavern training. I totally respect buoyancy is 1000000000% important to avoid the silt ups but spending 4 days and costing over 1,000 seems little steep and eats into my time line of things. Does this sound normal or an extra "selling point" to get extra money?

This isn't uncommon at all going into overhead training. You are an unknown coming in. I'm sure if you ask, they will do an evaluation on the first day and waive the course if not required. It is much easier to prepare you now than get your hopes up and shut you down on the first day due to lack of foundational skills.
I think more and more instructors are moving this route. There are too many people set on doing cavern and intro that show up with PADI advanced open water skills.

 

[Mr.337]

I can’t really speak to IANTD but GUE and TDI have different standards, any good instructor with TDI will be teaching way above the minimum but organizational standards set by GUE are very high to begin with. Cave 1 and 2 are taught in backmount configuration and the limits for cave 1 are slightly different then Intro (TDI). Cave 1 divers must have a minimum of 25 Cave 1 dives before taking Cave 2, TDI allows all the courses to be taken sequentially without any experience in between. Cave 2 covers stage bottle use and decompression, with TDI those are supplemental courses. With TDI the whole program can be done in sidemount and they also allow one on one classes. To begin any technical or cave training with GUE you must first take fundamentals, receive a tech endorsement and then complete 25 dives. This ensures that your basic skills are solid enough to add on more complex diving. A detailed description of standards for both agencies can be found on their respective websites. Many instructors with other agencies are taking a page from this and that is why they are requiring you to take an “ABC” class first. Also properly trained cave divers do not necessarily need guides and I would say that gaining experience with a similarly experienced buddy is more rewarding then only being guided. With a TDI Intro certification your limits are- no navigation, 1/6th of two cylinders or 1/3rd of a single (no one does this), no decomposition, no restrictions(area where two divers cannot swim side by side) and I’m pretty sure you aren’t supposed to go deeper than 100’.

I’m pretty sure the “Kim” you spoke with is male. I can only assume that after describing your experience he suggested this route. If you are confident that you are squared away for cave training I would suggest asking if there is any way you could be evaluated first. I’ve dealt with Protec and Kim over a minor snafu on their end regarding equipment repair and they were extremely generous in rectifying the issue. They also do loads of business- fill station, gear sales, guiding, advanced training IT, ccr, dpv, etc. so I don’t think they are trying to get over on you, just mange your expectations.

I totally assumed gender based on spelling holy smokes if i'm wrong i'm hella sorry

Ya after the conversations and feed back i'm definitely going to just do cavern and intro for now and get more cave dives under my belt before full cave. i'm just trying to make the most of the 6-8 days i have to train while i'm down there is my mission. If they deem i need more training then so be it, but atleast give me the opportunity to show what i'm capable of first is what i'm getting at.

I do not want to rush into this but also dont want to waste precious time/days off from work/money on things i could have learned here with just time in the water vs paying them to sign off for 4 days.

I've heard good things about protec because i guess they are more "youtube/facebook" famous vs others. i'm not set on any just 1 person who ever will devote their passion and knowledge to me. I drove 3hours round trip to take my sidemount course each day for a 3 day weekend because the instructor was highly recommended and definitely was the best instructor i have ever learned from.

 

[Mr.337]

This isn't uncommon at all going into overhead training. You are an unknown coming in. I'm sure if you ask, they will do an evaluation on the first day and waive the course if not required. It is much easier to prepare you now than get your hopes up and shut you down on the first day due to lack of foundational skills.
I think more and more instructors are moving this route. There are too many people set on doing cavern and intro that show up with PADI advanced open water skills.

I can see that now from the conversations with you guys here this is common. I've seen tons of other posts where people say set aside 5-9 days for full cave *not that im going that route now i'll stop at intro and build up dives 1st* so when i'm put back by someone saying oh it's gonna be 4 days for abc 4 days for cavern and 3 days for intro. I had to stop and say hold on what's different, and am I now wasting money with these folks vs another shop or are they just "upselling" to get more money is my only concern.

I'm totally fine with someone doing a check out dive as i haven't dove with them before. In fact i would be shocked if anyone would object to that.

 

[ginti]

While doing the failed regulators and swapping I usually have about a 6" up and down buoyancy so not perfect flat no but would that still be considered acceptable?

For a GUE tec pass, the limit is 3" up and down, but it is really a limit; 6" is a bit too much - imagine that the limit for a "rec-pass" is 5". About being horizontal, the limit for a tec-pass is 20°, do you believe you can maintain such a trim during exercises?

Now, keep in mind these two points:
1) there are reasons for these limits; especially in overhead environments, I believe they are important.
2) instructors teaching for different training may choose different limits.

Frankly speaking, I can see why a good instructor may want you to first do core skills training if you have a 6" depth variation during core exercises. In my opinion, go for advanced training now is a bit too much. But that is just me It's up to you the decision to train much more your core skills or to go for advanced training.

P.S. it is important that you are sure about your skills level; if you believe that your depth variation is 6", but you do not test it - that value may result to be very far from reality (in a negative or in a positive way) [EDIT: obviously, an evaluation dive is the best way to assess your level ]

 

[Wstern5]

i'm just trying to make the most of the 6-8 days i have to train while i'm down there is my mission. If they deem i need more training then so be it, but atleast give me the opportunity to show what i'm capable of first is what i'm getting at.

I think this is a good attitude to have, if you can do the skills properly, in trim with 6” depth change as you say then I’m sure they will start right away with cavern/intro after they see that. If not then they can help you develop the skills needed.

I do not want to rush into this but also dont want to waste precious time/days off from work/money on things i could have learned here with just time in the water vs paying them to sign off for 4 days.

You need to get the training from the cave guys then you can practice at home, not the other way around…

 

[Wstern5]

For a GUE tec pass, the limit is 3" up and down, but it is really a limit; 6" is a bit too much

‘=feet “=inches

 

[Mr.337]

For a GUE tec pass, the limit is 3" up and down, but it is really a limit; 6" is a bit too much - imagine that the limit for a "rec-pass" is 5". About being horizontal, the limit for a tec-pass is 20°, do you believe you can maintain such a trim during exercises?

Now, keep in mind these two points:
1) there are reasons for these limits; especially in overhead environments, I believe they are important.
2) instructors teaching for different training may choose different limits.

Frankly speaking, I can see why a good instructor may want you to first do core skills training if you have a 6" depth variation during core exercises. In my opinion, go for advanced training now is a bit too much. But that is just me It's up to you the decision to train much more your core skills or to go for advanced training.

P.S. it is important that you are sure about your skills level; if you believe that your depth variation is 6", but you do not test it - that value may result to be very far from reality (in a negative or in a positive way) [EDIT: obviously, an evaluation dive is the best way to assess your level ]

Either way i guess i'll see which route i go in the next day or 2 depending on availability of the 2 i'm emailing back and forth.


i'm talking about full on regulator failures and feathering tanks to breathe off of not just swapping regs and closing and opening a valve when i rise ~6" not when i'm hovering and just switching regulators normally. I'm not expecting myself to also go squeeze into the tightest of restrictions ANY time soon and that is something i'll work towards but not with the goal of taking this training immediately squeezing into the smallest of spots no.

Also like others said in the past you either swear by GUE or you hate GUE. I've seen arguments for both I'm leaning towards what i've been recommended by my awesome sidemount teacher who also is a cave/trimix/ccr etc but we both are living in Texas it isn't feasible for him to teach me unless we fly to mexico together or florida then that's just having to also work around his schedule.

 

[Mr.337]

I think this is a good attitude to have, if you can do the skills properly, in trim with 6” depth change as you say then I’m sure they will start right away with cavern/intro after they see that. If not then they can help you develop the skills needed.

You need to get the training from the cave guys then you can practice at home, not the other way around…

Totally makes sense. thanks for the tips i look forward to doing an update post with my results/feedback

 

[Norwegian Cave Diver]

Also i've spoken with Kim @ protect and she is wanting me to also take a ABC 4 day buoyancy course $280/day before i even start cavern training. I totally respect buoyancy is 1000000000% important to avoid the silt ups but spending 4 days and costing over 1,000 seems little steep and eats into my time line of things. Does this sound normal or an extra "selling point" to get extra money?

Kim Davidsson is a male.