Cave Diver mishap Ginnie Springs 04SEP09

[DA Aquamaster]

Again, the second hand information I have suggests his gear was in a normal undisturbed condition and there were no signs of panic in the cave in the vincinty where he was found. Lacking other first hand information to contradict that, there is no reason to assume that panic was a principle factor in the accident.

I object in general principle to promoting the 'panic as a cause" idea when there is no real evidence to support it. Its much like stating the cause of an aircraft accident is "pilot error", just because it crashed, before any conclusive evidence is found.

I don't think it is fair to Bruce to make that assumption and in general any unsupported assumptions or speculations made early in process can lead you off track and away from the real root causes of an accident.

 

[Juno]

he was sidemount. i don't think july is exitable even no-mount.

Correct on both counts. You would have to be a water molecule to get out July.

BTW the story goes that one of SM tanks was isolated, both empty.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Again, the second hand information I have suggests his gear was in a normal undisturbed condition and there were no signs of panic...

I think "panic" is probably an ill-advised word here, but that "highly stressed to the point of tunnel vision and degraded decision making" is probable. But his state of mind isn't the question - the question is "what did he do that resulted in his death." The bottom line here is that he went the wrong way.
I think he made a blind jump to Harry's Crack.
I think he got stuck in there, and silted out the system getting out.
I think he exited the crack with a low fuel state.
I think he missed the main line, found the Hill 400 line and for some reason (label it whatever you like) failed to recognize it was the Hill 400 line and headed up it.
What I haven't heard is whether there's any indication that he was headed upstream or downstream when he ran out of gas. If upstream then he probably was down to near fumes (in the red) when he found the Hill 400 line - only made it a bit less than 400' up the line before running out. If downstream then he may have had more gas and made it further, finally recognized where he was and headed back out, but too late.
From a lessons learned perspective, I think this mishap's number one lesson is "Don't make a blind jump, no matter how short or how easy it is."
Rick

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Correct on both counts. You would have to be a water molecule to get out July.

BTW the story goes that one of SM tanks was isolated, both empty.

I read that at CDS as well... and I think thats really odd, unless he was losing gas from the tank/valve seal, didn't realize it, and tried to isolate it through the valve.

I suppose he could have jammed the regulator up with mud or debri, which caused a freeflow of sorts(easily plausible). Then feathered the valve on/off until it was empty(and he just closed it once depleted). This would explain a closed, empty tank, cause valve/tank seal failurers are pretty damned rare(although not unheard of)... or maybe he didn't feather the valve, he could have just let the freeflow go, breath it or not, and close it once emtpy to keep water out of his tank?

This would significantly shorten his available gas, possibly to the point of having just enough to get out, without any other sorts of issues... this is all hypothetical, I dunno if he leaves some cushion in his gas planning or any of the other "what-ifs".

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Rick, I agree the multiple visual jumps by the team was a primary factor that may have prevented a safe exit.

However I am still having problems with Bruce failing to recognize the Hill 400 line once he was in good viz, if he intended to/thought he was exiting on the Hill 400 side. If that were the case, I'd suspect a health issue before "highly stressed to the point of tunnel vision and degraded decision making". And, if you have enough gas to get up 400 feet up Hill 400 from the Hill 400 jump, you probably have enough gas to get out from the Hill 400 jump.

However in looking at your basic scenario and perceptual narrowing under extreme stess concept, I could envision him entering the Hill 400 side, getting stuck, unknowingly getting turned around and exiting on the Hill 400 side - but thinking he was now exiting on the Expressway side. The two tunnels look a lot different, but it would leave him heading up Hill 400 going against the arrows, as he would expect to be doing if he were in the expressway tunnel heading directly to the mainline. From where he may have thought he was, only a few hundred PSI of gas remaining and a long way to go to exit would be enough to narrow most any diver's perception significantly as you focused on making best speed out of the cave. It would certainly be a lot more stressful than being at the Hill 400 jump with the same amount of gas. But it's pure speculation.

It's just hard to make any reasonable conclusions without more information - other than the obvious - if the circuit had been set up properly with jump lines, the odds are he would not have ended up in the Hill 400 tunnel.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

... or maybe he didn't feather the valve, he could have just let the freeflow go, breath it or not, and close it once emtpy to keep water out of his tank?

Mud in a second stage does not automatically mean freeflow. Wouldn't a side mount diver also just close the valve if the tank had been breathed dry?

 

[Matt S.]

there was a really good one available on the net, but it's been pulled from the site where I saw it - I have a copy but it's over 100MB...

If you can get me a copy somehow, I can host a download or put it on bit torrent if it's really worth sharing. I have a good connection at home.

 

[Rick Murchison]

If you can get me a copy somehow, I can host a download or put it on bit torrent if it's really worth sharing. I have a good connection at home.

Turns out it's the same one Andrew Ainslie has linked over at CDF - www.asainslie.com/videos/harrys.wmv
Rick

 

[Matt S.]

Good, thanks.

Not a caver, just curious.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

Mud in a second stage does not automatically mean freeflow. Wouldn't a side mount diver also just close the valve if the tank had been breathed dry?

Definately not a given, but mud being everywhere else, in a low passage, its a plausable explanation for a diver who's run out of air completely. I would wager that the easiest way to make a working regulator freeflow is by adding copious amounts of debri into it.

I would also think there's a higher chance for a diver to competantly close off a valve during/after a freeflow, than when both his tanks are running extremely low on gas(which, atleast in me, would instate a much higher state of panic).