Cattle Boat, what does that mean to you?

[robint]

I am with DB and Ronfrank on this one....... I think it isn't the size of boat or how many divers. It is lumping together beginners, snorkelers, and old-salts and giving them a set dive time limit - i.e. treating everyone the same.

I have been on boats in Calif where there were 30 people but I would never call them cattleboats. The divers were all completely self-sufficient, got geared up and jumped in and came back when done with dive. No DMs, no limits, and didn't feel crowded underwater either as some people went deep, some went left, some went right.... some were newer divers and didn't stay down long so they got back and boat and out of the way of others.

I have also been on smaller boats where everyone had to follow the DM and go up when the first person got low on air. Hated that.

robin

 

[tedtim]

I believe that it has more to do with the attitude and approach the crew take than the number of people on the boat. If you travel to resort areas, then you may have limited access to exactly what you want for boat dives (unless you charter the boat yourself).

Where we routinely dive off of boats in the St. Lawrence there is no DM. The operator takes us to the location scheduled, provides the briefing, we plan our own dive, and off we go. It is a bit different if there is a course being run on the same boat. You should find out ahead of time if this is the case because it may limit where the boat is going.

I have been on boats where there were 20+ people, both in resort locations and locally. Some of the divers needed the guiding hand of a DM, others did not. As long as we respected the time limitations set (all were recreational dives with consideration that the operator probably has another trip during the day) then it did not matter how many folks were on the boat.

 

[adjuster-jd]

My view of a cattle boat is one that can't bother to learn your name and instead gives you a number and/or color (plus number - ie: Blue-7). If they're that impersonal, they usually then don't bother to learn anything else about you either - experience level, etc.
I've been on a 12 passenger boat packed with 12 divers- mostly newbies. The DM asked if anyone had a computer - I was the only one who did (and only one of two people who had my own gear).
The operator treated me like royalty. The went to my choice of dive sites, got me in the water first, and out last. The made sure I got at least an hour dive time on the second dive even though most of the group had gone up well before me. So, while the boat was packed, I was made to feel at home. This is what I DON'T consider a cattle boat regardless of being a little short on space.
By the same token, as I said above, if they give me a number and limit me to the lowest common denominator for dive time, etc, then I have issues.

 

[Charlie99]

While cattleboat has derogatory connotations that I won't get into, I find that most boats fit into 3 categories ----

6 packs
12 passenger
12+ --- usually 24+.

I prefer a 6 px boat if it has the same sort of creature comforts (head, shade, reasonably dry, etc.) found on most 12 passenger boats. Since in many areas the economics of 6 passenger dive ops doesn't support that sort of boat, I often find myself going with the 12 passenger boats.

On either 6 or 12 passenger boats I generally find that there is a high level of personal interaction between customers and crews.

On a 24 passenger boat things are just naturally less personal. While the passengers aren't necessarily herded around like cattle, it's hard to have the personal touch with a crowd that size.

Of course, if the dive site I'm going to is 50 miles offshore, then there's a good chance that I'll prefer the much larger boat, even if it carries 24+.

 

[Alex777]

Since I live in the Cayman Islands, I get asked constantly if dive op X runs "cattle boats." Whatever posters may say here in this thread, most vacation divers simply consider any boat containing more than 8 divers a cattle boat.

This strike me as entirely unreasonable. The boats which are limited to 8 divers do so for a reason - that's the maximum they can carry. ANY boat which is carrying its maximum number of divers will be a bit crowded. In fact, the small ones are MORE likely to be full and crowded in my experience.

Most boat operators will ask their guests to request certain dive sites, but (here's a dirty little secret) the requests are honoured only if the requested site is one they go to anyway. NO dive op, big or small, will go to a site more than a certain distance away due to fuel costs, etc.

As for learning your name and experience level, etc., that really depends upon the attitude of individuals more than the size of the boat. I have certainly been on small dive boats where there was little personal interaction.

Under water, there is a clear distinction between dive ops which let you do your own thing and those which require you to stay with the group. Again, though, this does not really correlate with the size of the boat. Some operators running 24-diver boats let everyone go off on their own while some 8-diver boats insist that you stay with the group.

 

[caymaniac]

My view of a cattle boat is one that can't bother to learn your name and instead gives you a number and/or color (plus number - ie: Blue-7). If they're that impersonal, they usually then don't bother to learn anything else about you either - experience level, etc.
I've been on a 12 passenger boat packed with 12 divers- mostly newbies. The DM asked if anyone had a computer - I was the only one who did (and only one of two people who had my own gear).
The operator treated me like royalty. The went to my choice of dive sites, got me in the water first, and out last. The made sure I got at least an hour dive time on the second dive even though most of the group had gone up well before me. So, while the boat was packed, I was made to feel at home. This is what I DON'T consider a cattle boat regardless of being a little short on space.
By the same token, as I said above, if they give me a number and limit me to the lowest common denominator for dive time, etc, then I have issues.

I would have that wish, I've been on a cattle boat when:
1. there are more than 20 divers& snorkelers. The DM limits where you are at, the DM limits your bottom time, you are diving with your own gear, your own computer and the dive is called after 40 min, I still have 1300 lbs in my tank - Lahaina Divers inside Molokini. Nice boat. No tip
2. there are about 20 divers on board and we are on the North Wall at Grand Cayman, the DM's force you to follow and everyone goes up when the first person gets low on air. With half of my tank left and a 20-25 min. dive we go up, a newbie is low on air. -dive Soto's. not so nice boat. No tip
3. there are about 14 divers off the northside of St. Thomas, we dive on a crap reef with -Blue divers, the dive is longer at 45 min. but there is nothing (a few fish, no turtles, no rays, no eels only tiny fish )on the reef, my buddy and I use a compass to keep our distance from the boat and other divers. This op knows that this reef is crap and I hear them comment on it. No tip
4. Was on boat with 16 divers off Cayman Brac several days, diving two days off Little Cayman, dive boat was big but quite packed for this many divers. It was very organized, divers were helped in and out, you dove your choice with buddy team, photog's in first, use up your tank- average dive 1hr.10min. Divi Tiara big tip! Never had a problem with running into divers as viz was great and the walls were easy to follow, this kind of cattleboat diving I can put up with-however it is now closed.

 

[deepstops]

Sticking to six-pack boats and filling them with my friends works well for my local diving.

 

[ReefHound]

Most boat operators will ask their guests to request certain dive sites, but (here's a dirty little secret) the requests are honoured only if the requested site is one they go to anyway. NO dive op, big or small, will go to a site more than a certain distance away due to fuel costs, etc.

That's not a secret, that's common sense. I don't think any reasonable person would expect a dive op to go to a site outside it's normal range. What we are talking about is a case like RR in Key Largo where you have dozens of nearby sites but the crew only wants to go to the handful they are most familiar with and represent the least amount of work for them. Where the crew's attitude is why go to a wreck where they have to jockey with 5 other boats for a mooring ball then distinguish their divers from those on the other boats when they can go to a 30 foot reef well away from everyone else, and drop an anchor in the sand pretty much anywhere.

Maybe it's different in the Caymans but some ops set their diver capacity well below the official maximum capacity of the boat.

 

[garyfotodiver]

A cattle boat is a water-borne bovine transport system...

The attitude of the crew on the boat of any size is the make/break issue for me. I have been on a boat that holds 35 divers, but there are three exits and two in-water ladders located on opposite sides. I dove (once & only once) with an op in Key Largo where the divers were treated like sub-humans.

Last month I dove with about 20 divers, mostly students. The DM got us all in the water quickly, let the instructors deal with their student issues, and everyone was happy. And yes, since I often use this boat, I am well-treated.

 

[Alex777]

That's not a secret, that's common sense. I don't think any reasonable person would expect a dive op to go to a site outside it's normal range.

...

Maybe it's different in the Caymans but some ops set their diver capacity well below the official maximum capacity of the boat.

Common sense, yes, but most people coming here don't actually know which sites a dive op considers "within range", so they request one farther out and get told "it's too rough out there" or whatever. Happens with all sizes of dive op, large & small.

It is different here. I have never heard of a dive op setting its maximum number of divers to anything other than the boat's capacity. It is well known here that dive op businesses are only marginally profitable as it is.