Catalina Island death info?

[cruiser]

As far as the child feeling that he killed his father (I don't know if this is first hand info or not, it was just mentioned above), alot of that can be worked through if the child gets professional help. SPECULATION -- Does the child feel that way because he wasn't able to do enough for his dad underwater? Does he feel he ascended too quickly with his father and contributed to a possible case of DCS (in which case the child could have succumbed to DCS himself)? Does the child feel he didn't get his father to the surface quick enough? We may never know why the child feels responsible. END SPECULATION

Depending on your child as a dive buddy isn't a sound practice. In fact, should you depend on anyone as a buddy? I believe you're not a good buddy until you're a self sufficient diver. On a recent dive trip I overheard a diver saying he was looking for a buddy on the night dive in case his light went out. But that's a discussion for another thread. A buddy should be backup, not a crutch.

 

[overkillphil]

I apologize for making a premature jump to the DCS, the only other info I had heard was that he had frothy material from his mouth and his eyes were protruding.

For the record, his eyes were not protruding. When I towed him to the boat, his eyes were wide open, his pupils dilated, and lips blue, but no foam/froth. The foam only appeared out of his mouth and nose after we started chest compressions.

 

[PonchoTA]

Thanks Phil for clearing that up too.

 

[overkillphil]

No problem. I feel that I should wait for his autopsy results and his funeral this weekend before I give more details though. I can say that I had known the diver personally for the last 20 years (he was like my brother), and I'm feeling some guilt that I wasn't with him personally when it happened, though I am seeking counseling for this.

 

[DandyDon]

I didn't think about the boat not even going TO Catalina, and not having dived there (yet!!), not awfully familiar with the rest of the operations there. My apologies.

I've dive Catalina a few times: 2 trips from Long Beach that did not dock there, and 1 trip including a few nights on the island diving with one of the fine Ops there - it's done both ways. Nice diving, less that a 500 mile drive for you, or a cheap plane ticket. Get a 7 mil suit and go for it.

No problem. I feel that I should wait for his autopsy results and his funeral this weekend before I give more details though. I can say that I had known the diver personally for the last 20 years (he was like my brother), and I'm feeling some guilt that I wasn't with him personally when it happened, though I am seeking counseling for this.

I wish I could think of something better to say, but since you are a Divemaster Candidate then you have been thru Rescue training. I suppose your agency warned against undeserved stress or guilt following an accident similar to the chapter in the Padi manual. I do hope that you are talking this over in more detail with close friends even tho I understand your not wanting to post more here now. It sounds like you and his son did the best possible during a medical event that neither of you could have prevented.

 

[freewillie]

The actions of the 13 year-old are even more remarkable/commendable once you realize that his father was a very large man, weighing well over 300 pounds.

- Ken

After looking at the DAN 2008 data, being overweight is a significant contributing factor in scuba related deaths. The numbers given were overweight 38% and significant overweight 38%. That means of the deaths recorded for scuba diving, 78% of the victims were overweight. This might be a topic of another thread.

In regards to the son, I can only hope there is no long lasting psychologic damage. From Ken's previous post he was heard to say, "I killed my father." IMO the father's underlying health was a significant contributing factor to the accident, hopefully the child will come to realize in time his dad suffered a medical problem while underwater and there was nothing he could do about that. I hope he even comes to feel that he was able to help in some small way that he was able to bring his father to the surface so he could recieve medical attention and take some solace in his actions.

 

[freewillie]

For the record, his eyes were not protruding. When I towed him to the boat, his eyes were wide open, his pupils dilated, and lips blue, but no foam/froth. The foam only appeared out of his mouth and nose after we started chest compressions.

As a medical professional, the fact that his pupils were dilated and lips blue suggests that he had a sudden death event. Given Ken's previous post about his weight, I would speculate (and I'm clearly speculating based on few tidbits informations) that the victim had a sudden death event underwater such as a fatal heart arrhythmia (ventricular tachycardia) most likely brought about by the physical stress of diving.

I would also say that despite CPR and any other intervention to save the poor man, it would be highly unlikely he would have survived even if he was home. In general, these sudden death events carry with them a very high mortality. Less than 2% of victims will survive these type of sudden death events, and that is on land with 911 and emergency medical serivces. IMO all the brave responders did their best to revive the victim, but his fate was likely determined by a higher power.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

After looking at the DAN 2008 data, being overweight is a significant contributing factor in scuba related deaths. The numbers given were overweight 38% and significant overweight 38%. That means of the deaths recorded for scuba diving, 78% of the victims were overweight. This might be a topic of another thread.

@freewillie: Just a typo, but...38% + 38% = 76%.

Before jumping to any conclusions...
According to a 2007 World Health Organization report (based on 2005 numbers), 74.1% of the U.S. population can be considered "overweight" (BMI greater than or equal to 25). It would be interesting to learn how this compares to the diving population as a whole. More specifically, I'd be interested in what percentage of total dives are conducted by overweight divers and the outcome of those dives (successful, DCS, etc.)...and compare that to the outcome of dives conducted by non-overweight divers.

Another thing to consider is that we don't know the height of the victim. If he was any shorter than 7 ft. tall, then his BMI would fall into the "overweight" category.

 

[Rick Murchison]

After looking at the DAN 2008 data, being overweight is a significant contributing factor in scuba related deaths. The numbers given were overweight 38% and significant overweight 38%.

It isn't significant at all without knowledge of the overweight percentage of the general population that's scuba diving. Then you have to remove all the "would have died no matter what he/she was doing" to come up with true "scuba related" deaths... only then can you decide if being overweight adds any risk to scuba above what being overweight adds to getting out of bed in the morning.
IOW, by itself, it's a useless statistic.
Rick

 

[freewillie]

Sorry, math was never a strong point of mine. Couldn't find the calculator.

Being overwieght is not a 'useless statistic.' Scuba diving can be a strenuous physical activity. An obese person does not pass the eye ball test of do you think this person is healthy. While 'normal' physical activity may not bring about cardiac symptoms such as shortness of breath or chest pain, the increased physical demands of scuba diving and the inability to rest may unmasked someone who had previous undiagnosed coronary artery disease. In addition people who are overweight are more likely to have hypertension and diabetes, both of with also increase risk of cardiac disease.

The coroner may list the official cause of death as drowning (85% cases per DAN 2008 report) the bigger factor is cardiac disease accounted for almost 40%. So you are more likely to have a heart attack and drown than suffer from lung overexpansion injury or other scuba related injury. And BTW DCI/DCS is rarely fatal. Disabling and serious yes, fatal rarely.