Catalina Island death info?

[PonchoTA]

Has anybody heard anything about the death of a diver at Catalina this past weekend?

A friend at work's son finished his OW cert and on the boat someone died, I presume of DCS.
Unfortunately, not a lot of info forthcoming from friend's son.

Wondering if anyone on here had heard any more? Dr. Bill perhaps?

Thanks,
Paul

 

[Scott]

I can only confirm that it was fatal. I was on another boat just south of their location when the call went out. From the call I overheard [speculation] it was a suspected heart attack [/speculation]. They were diving north of Two Harbors around Eagle Reef so it was a fairly quick reponse from Baywatch.

 

[PonchoTA]

Thanks Scott. Appreciate it.

 

[overkillphil]

The diver who died this last Saturday had around 35 dives under his belt and had just completed his PADI Advanced Open Water cert 3 weeks prior. He was diving the north edge of Eagle Reef at around 40fsw when the incident happened. As soon as they surfaced, we jumped in, towed him to the boat, and started CPR. Baywatch did get there pretty quickly, and we took him directly to the chamber, where a DR pronounced him. We think it was a Pulmonary Embolism, but are waiting for autopsy results. I won't go into much more detail at this time except to say that he was diving with his 13 year old son when he passed, and his son swam them both up from depth.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

Please don't make me start my "Don't Speculate" rant again. Post what you know, not what you guess.

1. DCS had nothing to do with this accident. (And if you really want to get technical, DCS is rarely, rarely, rarely fatal.)
2. Autopsy had not been completed as of today (for those who don't know, I'm the Forensic Consultant to the LA County Coroner for scuba fatalities).
3. An embolism is only something that can only be confirmed at autopsy, and even then it's tough. It is premature and needless to speculate about that.
4. It is extremely difficult to "prove" heart attack, especially to a degree of medical certainty even if there's a strong suspicion that was what happened. Again, something that needs to be done at autopsy, not on an Internet chat board.

My biggest personal concern in this case is the effect this may have on the 13 year-old son. I wrote the following last night in my weekly TWARS (This Week at Reef Seekers):

A DISTURBING FATALITY THIS WEEKEND - They're all disturbing and there's much we still don't know about this latest one but what we do know is that a parent died while diving with their young-teen child. And it brings up a lot of issues (for me anyhow) about minimum certification age. Because it's not just about whether a child is physically able to handle the gear, or intellectually able to deal with concepts of physics when they haven't even had algebra yet. The big thing I discuss with parents who want to get a young child certified is diving safety. The knee-jerk reaction from the parents is almost always, "Don't worry because I'll be there all the time and will not let anything happen to my child." That's not it. If your child should die diving while under your care, the guilt you'll dredge up and will carry with you for the rest of your life is far more powerful than anything I could say. My concern is the opposite situation when it's the parent that dies on the dive and the child/buddy is unable to prevent it. Is the type of guilt that you want your child to possibly carry with them for the rest of their lives worth it? And I bring this up because my understanding is that in this particular case, the child was heard to say with some alarm, "I just killed my father." And while we can offer counseling and tell the child that it's not so, it's a pretty heavy burden to carry around (and a fairly natural instinct at an age when death is just some sort of an abstract concept). There is no right or wrong answer here. There is no easy answer. But all I'm suggesting is that if you're a parent with a young child who is either a diver or wants to become a diver, this is a discussion you MUST have with them, the same as you'd tell them not to ascend while holding their breath. It's an important issue that is often overlooked in this industry, especially as we lower the certification age, but it's something that needs to come out of the shadows.

- Ken

 

[hmarashi]

Thanks Ken for your writing. As a parent of a young child, one my dreams is, to go diving with her someday. This I know, will be one of our future talks.

 

[PonchoTA]

Thanks Ken for posting up good info here. I apologize for making a premature jump to the DCS, the only other info I had heard was that he had frothy material from his mouth and his eyes were protruding. Having only a few dives myself (roughly the same 35), and reading some of the stories in Alert Diver magazine, my thoughts turned quickly (albeit probably incorrectly) to these being DCS symptoms. If I'm wrong, I apologize also.

You are right also in the concern that should be given to the boy as well, he will probably need some counseling to deal with this, and to help him realize that this was not his fault. At the same time, he should be commended for his actions, ascending under these circumstances safely bringing his dad with him to bring him to aid.

I will await further information if it becomes available. I try to analyze circumstances and put myself into them to figure out how I would react also, and how to mitigate harm to myself or my dive buddy/partner. As an engineer, I realize that "lessons learned" are the best examples to learn from.

Best regards,
Paul

 

[vladimir]

Please don't make me start my "Don't Speculate" rant again. Post what you know, not what you guess.

As per forum rules, as listed in the sticky, speculation should be labeled as such, and is not forbidden:

(7) If your post is your hypothesis, theory, or a "possible scenario," identify it as such.

It is guaranteed to provoke a few rants, however, mostly from people who know the forum rules but can't seem to accept them.

 

[bleeb]

As per forum rules, as listed in the sticky, speculation should be labeled as such, and is not forbidden:

At the risk of hijacking the thread from the actual accident discussion:

IMO speculation is useful in an A&I thread if it is
a) educational (i.e. 'if this happened, this reaction was helpful in coping with it, but that behavior made things worse'); or
b) provides new information and the poster states why they think the speculation may be true (i.e. where did the information come from, and what additional evidence makes it more likely). However, people need to be careful not to fall into just repeating rumors. Degenerating into a storm of gossip isn't helpful. That being said, there has been at least one major thread in the past where an incident was ongoing and careful posting of rumors (including background information about each rumor) helped sort out a chaotic situation and identify which bits of information circulating around were not accurate. So while some posting or speculative information may be good as far as the A&I forum goes, everyone needs to be careful not to go over the nebulous line.

 

[drbill]

This is the first I've heard of this sad incident. I am rarely aware of any incidents that occur on dive boats coming from the mainland until well after they happen, and frequently not even those that occur in the dive park. Being a marine biologist Ph.D. rather than an M.D., I have to defer to anyone with first-hand medical knowledge anyway (like Ken).