Carolinas: Broad River: Diver In Critical, Any News?

[dmaziuk]

I think the negative comments were directed not to what did or did not happen in this incident. The negative comments, including mine, were directed to the foolish notion that running out of air in water no more than 20 feet deep is acceptable, and also to the harebrained notion that 20 feet represents a 'no limits' depth in any other connection beyond decompression related time at depth.

OK, this is my last reply to you ever: where did you read anything about OOG? There's nothing foolish about planning to dive to 20 feet and come up normally with the SPG reading 0. Anyone who thinks that plan is CRAZY! has completely failed to understand the deco-related material given to them in the OW class. They should have failed the written test. Keep arguing with your imaginary friends, I'm out.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

And? Which part of It is not known at this time what happened to Owens reads "OOG" or "AGE" to you?
: plonk:

Did you not read what YOU wrote regarding running out fo air? You said (in #5), "And even in gear you should be able to cover it with a single push off the bottom -- I mean, just stand up straight and you're almost 1/3rd of the way there. So, no, not crazy at all." Correct me if I'm not interpreting this correctly, but you are saying - in general terms having NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS INCIDENT - that it's OK to run out of air at 20 feet because you're so close to the surface so it's not big deal.

You're wrong. It's not OK. It IS a big deal. It could be fatal. It's the diving equivalent of Russian Roulette. Why would you put anyone who cares about you through the grief of your death for a few extra minutes underwater? It's a stupid thing to do. And the DAN stats back that up. Running out of air is NOT okay.

- Ken

 

[agilis]

OK, this is my last reply to you ever: where did you read anything about OOG? There's nothing foolish about planning to dive to 20 feet and come up normally with the SPG reading 0. Anyone who thinks that plan is CRAZY! has completely failed to understand the deco-related material given to them in the OW class. They should have failed the written test. Keep arguing with your imaginary friends, I'm out.

And to think I was going to ask you out on a date. I did well on the disco -related material.

 

[dmaziuk]

Correct me if I'm not interpreting this correctly, but you are saying - in general terms having NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS INCIDENT - that it's OK to run out of air at 20 feet because you're so close to the surface so it's not big deal.

You're missing the context. The context was:

I have a diving buddy who has dove for sharks teeth and some guys wait until their air is gone before surfacing. He says their logic is they are only in 20' of water. CRAZY!

The guys are planning to dive to 20 feet and surface normally with the SPG reading 0. Nobody is out of air at any depth at any point in this conversation, they're only out of air in your interpretation.

Or do you believe freediving to 20 feet without a scuba cylinder is also a YOUR GONNA DIE! big deal because you're out of air the whole time.

 

[agilis]

You're missing the context. The context was:



The guys are planning to dive to 20 feet and surface with the SPG reading 0. Nobody is out of air at any depth at any point in this conversation, they're only out of air in your interpretation.

Or do you believe freediving to 20 feet without a scuba cylinder is also a YOUR GONNA DIE! big deal because you're out of air the whole time.

"air is gone" = out of air.

The objections have NOTHING to do with decompression related issues. Nothing. Zero. Nada.

Running a bottle down to zero pressure is potentially bad for the tank, the valve, and the regulator, in addition to possibly resulting in death. The Grim Reaper will not be looking at the Tables. Aspirated water and/or an embolism are more likely. In general, people who intentionally run their tanks down to zero pressure are ignorant imbeciles.

I have no idea what happened in this tragic incident. What I've written is only in response to your comments.

Freediving to any depth is totally different from breathing compressed air. A moderately deep breath of compressed air at twenty feet will expand quite a bit, about 60%, if held for the second or two it takes to reach the surface after 'pushing off' the bottom. The expandability of human lungs is much less than that. Pressure related volume changes are most acute near the surface.

 

[Ken Kurtis]

You're missing the context.

I'm not missing context. I'm missing any shred of rational thought in what you say.

The guys are planning to dive to 20 feet and surface normally with the SPG reading 0.

Because, as everyone knows, as long as you PLAN for it, NOTHING CAN GO WRONG.

Nobody is out of air at any depth at any point in this conversation, they're only out of air in your interpretation.

Without doing an on-line poll, I'm fairly confident in predicting that everyone will agree that 0 psi = out-of-air.

Or do you believe freediving to 20 feet without a scuba cylinder is also a YOUR GONNA DIE! big deal because you're out of air the whole time.

Please stop proving you don't have an understanding of Boyle. World of difference in freediving down to any depth & coming back up, and diving on compressed gas & doing a free ascent from that depth, which is what you're advocating, and then further asserting that it can't possibly go wrong as long as you plan for it not to.

I fear the epitaph on your headstone will read: "He didn't plan to be dead." Seriously, you are advocating dangerous dive practices.

 

[Bob DBF]

In general, people who intentionally run their tanks down to zero pressure are ignorant imbeciles

I thank you for the wiggle room, I do agree with the reasons not to do it.

There is a difference between inadvertently going OOA and intentionally breathing the tank down. The former will more likely induce panic with poor outcomes as indicated by the DAN study. The latter is not a problem unless something goes wrong, as with any endeavor.



Bob

 

[Jeff Scott]

Hi everyone. I am basically from Johnson City, TN...its minutes away from me. I did not personally know Brian Owens, but I have friends that did. This is a just a tragic event. We are trying to figure out what happened ourselves. As stated, I did not know him, but from what I gather in talking to people is that he was an experienced diver and had good functioning equipment. I am told he had a ScubaPro MK25 for his 1st stage and everything was in good working order. You can also see some additional information on Facebook at Cooper River Divers. I was not there, I do not know anyone that was there when this occurred. What appears to have happened was an OOG situation. I'm not a reg tech but I'm told that with the MK 25 being a balanced reg that you can breathe the tank dry and newer know it until your last breath. I cannot verify this but what I hear is that when they found him he had ditched his weights as if doing an emergency ascent and when they tried to inflate his BCD that there was no air in his tank. He may have been too excited digging for teeth or just didn't watch his spg or whatever means he had to monitor his air consumption. Visibility may have played into this, but it seems to be a lack of situational awareness. It's a terrible loss that never should have happened.

 

[USdiver1]

A sad and avoidable tragic accident. If indeed "searching for teeth" is as mentally absorbing as u/w hunting or u/w photography, perhaps those doing so should either invest in a j-valve or ScubaPro Mk VII "Honker". I personally used these two bits of equipment as brain-fart backup during my u/w hunting days. I particularly disliked the Honker as it would scare the fish away when my tank neared its minimum. It was, however, very effective in getting me to disengage mentally from the hunter mindset and remind me that I was in need of an immediate ascent. The lobsters, crabs and gamefish were always back when I returned a few minutes later with a fresh cylinder of air.

 

[KevinNM]

You're missing the context. The context was:

The guys are planning to dive to 20 feet and surface normally with the SPG reading 0. Nobody is out of air at any depth at any point in this conversation, they're only out of air in your interpretation.

SPGs are not accurate at low pressure, or at very high pressure. You might be out of air at 150 PSI, or you might have 200 PSI left in your tank when it reads 0 PSI. That's where the whole "surface at 500 PSI" thing come from.