Capital Costs between units

[king_of_battle]

I understand rebreathers have a hefty upfront cost. I’m starting to whittle down what I’m looking for in a unit and to say cost isn’t at least some part of the equation would be disingenuous. I understand each of these units has pros and cons and I don’t want to go down that path here- with this thread I want to understand better the upfront cost. I am not including any spare parts, consumables, instructor costs, etc.

Hopefully once I decide on a unit I can wait/find a used unit but assuming I can’t, am I in the ballpark trying to compare apples to apples (as much as possible) for upfront capital cost:

These are the units that are in my area (either are dived and/or have instructors and support local):

Mini Revo III Hybrid with RMS and petrel:
Base cost (ready to dive unit) - $8,650 (stonerust or ocean edge outfitters websites)
Shrimp BOV - $830 (Golem gear)
HUD – included (with the revo dream? Not sure)
Total cost: $9,480

JJ:
Base cost (ready to dive unit) - $8,995 (rebreathers USA)
Shrimp - $830 (golem)
HUD - included
Total Cost $9,825

XCCR with petrel EXT, everything else standard:
Base cost (ready to dive) $11,250 (XCCR website)
Shrimp - included
HUD - included
Total Cost $11,250

SF2 BM:
Base cost (ready to dive unit) - $9,800 (stonerust)
Shrimp - $830 (golem)
HUD – ~$500 (AV1 HUD – cost I see most online but haven’t found an official price)
Total Cost $11,130

Not currently considering but is dived in my area so what the hell:
Prism 2:
Base Cost (ready to dive) - $8,599 (DRIS)
Shrimp - $599 (DRIS)
HUD - included
Total Cost $9,198


Am I missing something? Again with this I’m not looking at consumables, extra cells, etc. Just a ‘basic’ setup +BOV and HUD if not included. Thanks for correcting any wrong assumptions I'm making.

 

[Danseur]

Figure on them all being close enough to the same to not really matter from a cost perspective. These are philosophically all very different units from an engineering perspective. Although all good units, perhaps you may want to whittle it down a bit more?

If an extra grand on a new rebreather is a big deal, I think perhaps new is not the way to go for you. It wasn't for me. Same for HUD and BOV.

I narrowed my search and waited (almost a year) before I found a used unit in my price range. That freed up a budget to travel to a prefered instructor, plus lodging, training, spares, dives, expendables, etc and still come out considerably ahead over a new unit. Also as a first unit, I bought something "fully depreciated", but fully serviceable in the off chance once I got time on the unit I would elect to go a different way.

New units are great! New cars are as well. I try not to buy them new either...

So, if the difference between $9k and -$12k isn't a big deal, neither is spending $9k-$12k; go for it! If it is, the units you mentioned average about $5500 or so on the used market. Some higher, some less, but that should be average enough to do some budgeting and figure on a cost/benefit analysis.

Some units are easier to service than others, and this varies a LOT. PLEASE consider this so you don't get surprised. Going new or used this can be a biggie, or no issue at all, depending.

Full disclosure: I am a cave diver and ended up with a used SM SF2. Still very happy with the unit for my intended purposes. Was very happy taking my training with Hidden Worlds (James Draker + Marissa Eckert) in Ft. White, FL.

 

[rjack321]

Those are very different units, not sure why you have narrowed your list to those?

I would get a used unit, you don't really know what you like and don't like until you have 75+hrs in. Getting a "pre-depreciated" unit allows you to sell it for close to your purchase cost and move on if its not a good fit.
For the record:
I bought a used Meg 2.06, had a handset fail and so I upgraded it to a 2.7 with shearwater secondary.
Two years later I bought a new kiss sidewinder.

I still enjoy diving both, but its a rare day that one or the other isn't a better unit for a specific dive.

 

[king_of_battle]

@Danseur @rjack321
I agree used is the way to go. I can be patient and wait for something on the used market. I'm happy in doubles and other than paying for the helium don't mind them. These units all have definite differences that I am also weighing but I was trying to ignore those for now to look at capital costs with this specific thread. Those other differences will sway whichever unit I end up going with much more than the cost.

I'm just curious if I am pricing a new unit correctly. That, to some degree, helps me understand depreciated costs better and paints a more complete picture of the unit.

 

[Jeremy Williams]

Your pricing on the XCCR is high because you don’t need that ‘extra’ Petrel based on your post. The controller and HUD are included in the base cost which is $10,061 ready to dive.

 

[taimen]

You should really figure in training costs in this comparison because they make a difference.
The unit you can get trained locally might end up costing 1-2k less.
I would try to compare the total cost of ownership for the first 3 years including training to whatever level your aim is.

 

[rjack321]

@Danseur @rjack321
I agree used is the way to go. I can be patient and wait for something on the used market. I'm happy in doubles and other than paying for the helium don't mind them. These units all have definite differences that I am also weighing but I was trying to ignore those for now to look at capital costs with this specific thread. Those other differences will sway whichever unit I end up going with much more than the cost.

I'm just curious if I am pricing a new unit correctly. That, to some degree, helps me understand depreciated costs better and paints a more complete picture of the unit.

Used Megs and Revos are typically in the $4 to 5,000 range because they are the oldest. RMS would only be on newer units and you'll pay a ~$1,500 premium for it being newer + RMS.
The RMS on the revo may or may not be working at the price (and may or may not work in a new unit too lol)

You can easily find a used defender, probably not a used XCCR.
Used JJs would be rare and unlikely to be significantly depreciated
Used SF2 (backmount) is easy to find, sidemount version less common. They aren't that old so depreciation is comparable to a used JJ.

So unless you wait 2+ yrs for the cutting edge units you have listed (basically everything but the prism) to age on the market you won't save ~45-50% via depreciation because they will have all the bells and whistles and/or won't be that old in the first place. If you reduce your criteria to something older and less snazzy like an 8yo non-RMS Revo or Defender or Meg 2.7 (or even a Kiss) you could get into a unit much sooner and build experience without all the bells and whistles.

 

[Danseur]

However, deals can be had IF you are patient.

Also, if you don't insist on CanBus, analog JJs do come up at a bargain from time to time. There have been a number of solid and affordable SF2s on the market for lately.

Great deals on 2.7 Megs and ever consider an Optima? Stupid good deals on updated versions aren't hard to find.

 

[rjack321]

Good point about the analog JJs

The other thing to keep in mind is what is commonly dove in your area with reasonable (decent) instruction available. I know many divers who have identified what they think the ideal unit for them. But the nearest instructor is across the country and (e.g. the revo) it has to go back to New Jersey for the silliest thing like replacing the counterlung which ends up being super time consuming and expensive. So sure there's upfront costs, but if taking MOD2 is going to take 3x the money with one unit vs another that's not trivial.

 

[tstormdiver]

I have a lightly used Hollis Prism2 for sale. For Sale - Hollis Prism2 CCR With Cylinders $4,000 + S & H